Berkley Center

Background: As part of the Education and Social Justice Project, in July 2013 undergraduate student Sarah Baran interviewed Father Rodrigo Zarazaga, SJ, founder of Protagonizar, a microfinance lender in the lower class community of San Miguel, Buenos Aires, Argentina. In this interview Father Zarazaga discusses the birth of the organization, obstacles it has faced, Protagonizar's impact on the community, and the roles faith and social justice play in the organization.

Can you please share with me a little bit more about your past experiences that led to try founding a microfinance organization in San Miguel, Argentina?

I am from this area and grew up in the outskirts of Buenos Aires, Argentina. I graduated from the University of Buenos Aires with a degree in philosophy. It was during college that I joined the Jesuits, and upon graduating, I spent seven years in the seminary of Colegio Maximo studying theology. After I graduated, I was sent to Colombia in 1998 to work with a nongovernment organization, Magdalena, doing different types of social work. This organization mainly provided fishing boats with motors. It sounds very simple, but it was incredible how receiving motors empowered these people. It was during my time in Colombia, working and living in areas suffering extreme poverty, that I read the Muhammad Yunus book entitled Towards a World without Poverty. While I was reading this book and learning about its success in India, I thought, "Why can’t I bring this back to Buenos Aires? We should start a microfinance organization there."

After working with this organization, I came back and started doing pastoral work in Barrio Mitre. Barrio Mitre is what you would call in English a shantytown and is a poor area. We began work in 1999, and one year later there was a huge financial crisis, during which unemployment reached 60 percent. People were starving. We were sure we had to do something. The basic needs there are always twice that of the national level. The assistance the church was giving was all about food handouts, which are important because people need to eat, but it was not changing the reality. I was looking for something closer to the Jesuit ideal of promoting the poor. I shared the idea of microfinance with my father at my parish, and he gave me 500 dollars to start. I gave the first loans with this money, and after that the organization started to grow. I was ordained as a priest in 2003 and a pastor in Barrio Mitre. In the chapel, the first fifty loans were given from the sacristy.

It’s a funny story how Protagonizar started with the Jesuits because I proposed the idea to start giving loans from the church in a microfinance format, and they said no. Well, my superior said no, but I still went ahead and did it. They found out about it when they read an article about us in the newspaper, and it was at that point that they accepted it because everyone was commending it as such a great idea. We received the 2004 National Government Provincial award, but we were technically illegal beforehand.

Where does the name Protagonizar come from?

Well, we started in the Church, and the organization’s connections to the church can’t be ignored, therefore it had a very Catholic founding. My father was always very Catholic, and in the first couple of meetings, although we didn’t have a name yet, he had already begun referring to it as San Jose. However, we knew that many people who would come to receive the loans wouldn’t be religious, and we didn’t want to discriminate against them or dissuade people away with a Catholic name. Thus, we wanted a more lay name. When we were talking about it, I said, ‘No, they have to be the protagonists.’ We then realized it was exactly that—they have to be the Protagonizars of their own lives. So it was almost Los Protagonistas, but then we changed it to Protagonizar. Still, my father continued to refer to it as San Jose after that point.

What were some of the obstacles you faced in the beginning?

We weren’t sure if we would find people with the skills, good ideas, or the will to work and prosper. At the beginning, we didn’t have many people coming and looking for loans. Often, people who were looking for loans were suspicious and thought, "How it is possible that you’ll give us this loan with this low interest?" They thought it was a trick because there are plenty who cheat them with crazy interest rates or promises afterwards. The church helped us in the beginning when we did not have a lot of clients because those that knew us in the church knew it was safe. Word spread, and we now have more interested people than available money to give out, but the situation was reversed in the beginning. The most important advertisement for us is mouth-to-mouth.

Donations were also difficult to find. Inflation is very high in Argentina, and we live in cycles of poverty. Argentina’s economy changes by the hour; it shrinks when we have nothing at all, especially in construction. There are not many high quality jobs; rather, many are low skill level positions, and, as a whole, the country is lacking in education. In 2001, it was hard to get donations and grants. We received ten or fifteen donations from different people in Argentina that had found us in the news. Professional foundations in the US then donated $10,000, which allowed us to grow more significantly.

Can you please share with me what elements were vital from the beginning that then made a difference in setting the framework and ensuring the success of Protagonizar?

All of us were good friends. We were a community. Everyone who was helping make Protagonizar a reality—Juan, Damian, María Lujan, Analia, Isabel, and the other volunteers—shared the same goal, and the process was also fun. We would have barbeques and parties. Really, we all knew each other from different pastoral activities, and the work of Protagonizar was born there. It was important that we were friends. We enjoyed being together, and part of the success has come from a combination of talents. I would know someone, like Juan, and know of his hard work ethic and the background experience he could bring to the table. So, I approached him about the idea. A friend of mine, my partner, has a background in business. My father took care of the legal aspect. He was an accountant, but he knew a lot about the legal process.

We had a lot of freedom too. The idea came from a book, but we were not following anyone. It was our own implementation. We were among the first microfinance groups starting in Argentina when we first began. and that helped in getting us a lot of publicity from the newspapers. At the start, we had nothing like we do now. We only had a little notebook, no computer, no heat.

Did you collaborate with any other microfinance organizations?

No, not really. Once, I went to Peru to learn and observe one. Honestly, I did not read much or do a lot of research on how to start or run a microfinance organization before we started. I just sort of did things my own way, which made sense. It was a trial and error process, and I do not believe in consulting. We did not participate in any fancy conferences or things like that because their organizers are only trying to pay their own salary from that.

What is the role of faith in Protagonizar?

I do not think we can separate faith from social justice. Jesus’ message on taking care of one another to fully develop all the human capabilities is through social justice. The realization of the human being is the realization of God. In order to contribute to that, we have to contribute to how God works. I have baptized sons and officiated weddings of our entrepreneurs, and I see how life all comes together. As time passed, there would often be more formal talks on God. Sometimes people think priests should only do sacraments, but there is also a greater role for them, and there is always the potential that they can be part of our lives.

What is your definition of social justice?

There are a set of opportunities for people: education, health, etc. We like assuming that this set of opportunities is a level playing field, but it is not, especially in developing countries. Social justice is leveling the field. We are hoping to level the field by providing access to credit, as we often discriminate or use the poor. Social justice is more about discovering and supporting the human being.

What are the impacts of Protagonizar on the community?

For many years, the only question for me was how to evaluate our work, which is hard to ask. Is this making an impact? What is the impact? How can we be sure? Yet when you talk to someone who’s with Protagoinzar about the organization, you will realize that we have helped many people. When you walk down the street and pass people or pass little businesses and can point out, "He’s with us, he’s with us," it is clear we have definitely had an impact, and a positive one. We are the biggest investor in this shantytown. Who’s putting in that much money? Not even the state is. I sometimes wonder if could have done it better and if we are really reaching the poor and those who need it.

What played a factor in your decision to step down as president and what is the project you are focused on now?

I felt as though it was time to leave. A solid foundation with a working schedule and rhythm had been laid. However, I did not like that people started referring to it as "Rodrigo’s loans" or associating me with the work of the foundation. The focus was too much on me, and I felt it was time then for new leadership. I also realized that Argentina’s problems are inherently political. Large structural change needs to occur within the government in order to address these issues of poverty because Argentina is a rich country, and the problem is the corruption of its political leaders. So, I thought that we needed to educate new political leaders with ethics and values to change the direction of the country. Therefore, I am now working on creating a think tank and master’s degree program in public administration that would educate a new wave of leaders.

What is your favorite part?

First of all, I enjoy being able to witness people developing their own lives and coming out of poverty. For example, there will be someone to whom we lent 500 dollars five years ago, and now they have decent meals, and their children are in schools. It’s a very small amount of money, but it makes a difference. It is very rewarding to be part of that process.

Secondly, there is the sense of community that existed amongst us. We were a family, which was very enriching and fun for everyone. I miss it a lot.