Berkley Center

Background: Sister Maureen Ogunde works in Kenya and in English speaking Africa with women’s groups, providing training and encouraging self-esteem and reliance as a way for girls and women to achieve more fulfilling lives. The focus is on vulnerability and that takes her to Nairobi’s large slums and to girls and women who have few opportunities and have been unable to pursue education. She describes how, with her congregation (the Sacramentine Sisters of Bergamo) and the World Women’s Observatory (WWO), groups learn from each other’s experience. In the process they can help to change the cultural practices that harm many women and give women the skills and confidence they need to achieve at least some economic independence. She engages Catholic women in the first instance, but also works with men and community leaders as well as people from other religious traditions. Sister Ogunde and Katherine Marshall spoke (by WhatsApp) on April 28, 2025. Sister Ogunde’s central message turns always to education and its capacity to open new vistas for lives of even the most vulnerable people.

I really believe that through education, their eyes will be opened. Because if they're not educated, they will be very satisfied with the level where they are. But when they're empowered, they're educated, they're able to say, "I can go much beyond here. I have a dream. I cannot remain at this level. I can go far."

Bio: Sister Maureen Ogunde is a community manager of the World Women's Observatory (WWO) in English-speaking African countries, and a Catholic sister belonging to the congregation of the Sacramentine Sisters of Bergamo. She is from Kenya and is a part of Georgetown University’s Women Faith Leaders Fellowship 2024-2025 cohort. She is a part-time facilitator with the Professional Development of Congregational Leaders (PDCL), which is under the Centre for Leadership and Management at Tangaza University. Through the Sacramentine Sisters, Sister Ogunde has served as a missionary in Malawi, Kenya, and Italy. She holds a bachelor's degree in education (mathematics and computer science) and is currently pursuing a master’s degree in project management and planning at the Catholic University of East Africa (CUEA).

Can you please start by telling me a little bit more about how you got to where you are today: your story, and what you're doing now. How did you come to work with the World Women’s Observatory?

It started with a small beginning. We began to know and work with women in two of the largest slums in Nairobi, in Kenya: first in Kangemi and then in Kibera. We wanted to find out what these women were missing and how we could give them tools so that they would not simply keep knocking on our doors, saying "There's no food, there's no this or that." We wanted to be able to help them in ways that would let them sustain themselves.

We then began to visit women, looking at their situation. They faced many issues, including gender violence, poor education, and other problems. We found that all these problems were linked to their lack of economic independence. So as a congregation, we set out to find a way of empowering them. We started by forming a group of 20 women and working with them. We began with informal education, because most of them have dropped from school and they could not continue with their studies. This informal education was based above all on positive parenting so that they could at least learn how to bring up their families with self-awareness. This helps them to build their self-esteem and to grow emotionally. If they are emotionally resilient, they can stand up on their own.

I've been working with women for many years. When I began I was particularly attentive to Catholic women, working in the area where I was based. When I came to Nairobi, I was more open to other religions. Now, I work not only to empower the Catholic women, but women of other, different religions, including non-Christians like Muslims. Here in Nairobi, I started engaging and working with the women in Islam because we have a convent that is a neighbor of an Islamic community.

After a short time of educating the women, we offered them some options, to choose the skill where they're gifted and they have a passion. They chose a variety of skills, like cloth making, physiotherapy, beautician, and others. Once the person had identified their area of passion, we began searching for funds for them that would allow them a small startup. Little by little, we were able to encourage this capacity. With our education, they were empowered to save, like knowing how to keep the passbook. They were then able to grow their business. Once these women were empowered and had grown their business, they become so excited that when we move to the next cohort, they help us to work with them.

We were doing this work with small groups of women at the congregational level, when a team from the World Women's Observatory (WWO) visited Kenya. I met them during a meeting in Nairobi and I shared with them what we are doing with the women’s groups. They wanted to visit the groups to see how we were working. I went with them to the slum and met the women, who shared their stories: how they had been empowered and how we had supported them.

So that is how the WWO got in touch with me. They said that since I was so successful in the slums in Kenya, they wanted me to share the same approach with different organizations in Africa. I was thus chosen to be the community manager of the WWO in Africa, in English-speaking countries.

Today, in the WWO, I work not only with women in Kenya. When I'm in Kenya, in Nairobi, I do a lot of work with the women at the grassroots. But, working online mainly, I work with and coordinate women in other African countries. We are doing a lot of networking as we try to engage with different organizations that work with women. They may be religious congregations, or other NGOs. Some are profit-making as they work to build their organizations, while others are purely charitable organizations. As we follow our motive of empowering women, we work together to learn the good practices that each and every organization is doing. We then try to put them in practice. When I see that an organization has a good practice that I don't find in my organization, I try to benchmark and imitate, encouraging others to do the same. We have therefore been able to learn different skills.

We have not only engaged the women. At the grassroots, we also engage men and a variety of ambassadors and different community managers. That is because we realize that to empower women, we cannot succeed by working with women only. We have to engage the men and the people at the village. In Kenya and elsewhere, there is much injustice, a lot of gender-based violence, and other and issues that affect the women that come from different cultural traditions, and some are not very positive.

I'm interested in your insights about the cultural dimensions you mention. What is distinctive and how does it differ by region and country?

To take myself, I come from a tribe in Kenya where when I'm married as a girl or as a woman and it happens that my husband dies, according to the culture, I'm supposed to be inherited. The man who is supposed to inherit me is chosen by relatives, especially men, who are supposed to choose for me. They usually choose a person who is close to those relatives, because they don't want to lose you; they want to keep you. But if I am young and my husband has died, I might want to be independent or perhaps move on. But I don't have that freedom of choice. The relatives will simply choose the man and I must accept. The challenge, where I come from, is that if a woman has an education, she knows that this practice is wrong and she knows that she should have freedom. If I were a man, I would have the freedom to choose what I want. But for my cousins and my relatives in the village, many do not have this choice. I have two aunties who were inherited, and unfortunately, some of the men who inherited them are even HIV positive. But once you are given, you are not able to say no.

We have to change this kind of mentality so that the women can have a voice, can take a stand, and can have a dignity of living in the right way.

In a neighboring culture, they do female genital mutilation. We have been working to reduce it, but the cultural force is still so strong that that the young ladies we are trying to help are convinced that they must follow the practice. It is very difficult to help and to change people’s mentality.

Another cultural practice that is very negative and needs to be changed is the marriage of children. When we go to the peripheries of Kenya, especially the northern part, in Turkana for example, there is not much education available. Once young girls in that area, reach around eight, nine, ten years old, the parents have already booked who is going to marry them, and they have already even exchanged the animals that are to pay the dowry. Even if the marriage is not done immediately and they wait for the girl to be mature, it's already booked. As that girl is growing up, she doesn't have a choice or a voice to choose the person that she wants. Psychologically, that girl is prepared in a way that she can only see as the best way.

We went there recently and met with a group of women to try to talk to them and to change their mentality. I remember young girls who challenged us, saying, "If I go to school up to university, when it comes time to pay the dowry, they will pay less because I've not gone through what is the expectation of the culture. But if I drop from the school and I get married, maybe at 16 years or 15 years, my parents will get more dowry because I meet the cultural requirement." We are trying to change the mentality of these young people and tell them that through education, you can go far. Through education, you can live your life to the fullest. Through education, you can do a lot. As I work a lot with women, we have found that we can really empower the women through education and through enlightening them and self-awareness and building their esteem. Once their esteem is built and they're educated, they're able to know what is right for them.

When people talk about gender-based violence, they usually mean physical beating. I think you're pointing to things that are the roots of it. Is that something that you focus on?

Actual gender-based violence sometimes come in a physical way, and sometimes it's emotional. It is often linked to culture. That's why I believe that it is really education that makes people change their mentality. In the past, even when I was growing up, you could hear your uncle beating your aunt and it was something normal. You could hear somebody beating their wife. It was considered normal, that the women have to be disciplined. They have to be taught the right way. With time, we have realized that there are ways for people to dialogue without physical fights. But even though the government is now trying to bring in policies that protect women, you find that the physical gender-based violence still continues. And even women who may not go through physical gender-based violence, emotionally, they are really suffering, because they have to depend completely on others. They cannot make decisions themselves. They are not able to sustain themselves as they depend on others. And as they depend so much on others, they accept any way they're treated because at the end of the day, they don't have anything to depend on.

Backing up a little, where were you born and how did you decide what you would do with your life, to become a sister?

I was born in the lakeside part of Kenya, in South Nyanza, near Lake Victoria. I come from a tribe known as the Luo. Our tribe is very strong on heritage. I grew up in a family where we are five girls and one boy. My father is a good man, a Christian, a Catholic. But even now we have five girls and one boy, but I can tell you, all the properties of my parents and my family have been put under the name of my brother, because according to my culture, it's the boys who matter. The girls are getting married, they go away, so they don't matter.

As a young girl, I grew up in a very simple family, but I knew that if I wanted to achieve something or to reach a place where I could live my life fully, I had to work really hard in school. I really put in efforts in school, because I knew that without education, I could not do anything. I can remember that even as we left our house my father would comment, if we girls didn't clean the house well, "You have to learn to clean, otherwise your husband will beat you." So you grew up knowing that if you didn’t do what was expected you could be beaten by your husband.

Our parents tried hard to bring us up with a strong faith, but I never thought then of being a nun. I started to think of that when I was in high school. I went to a Catholic school, and I was in love with the sisters. I thought: "I want to serve humanity like these women who have left everything and serve humanity." Immediately after I finished secondary school, I decided to join a convent. I was so young, only 17 years old, and my motives were a bit superficial. But sometimes I think that maybe God used that superficial situation to make me focus on what I'm doing now. I could see a lot of abuse, a lot of people who did not have a voice, who needed somebody to stand up for them. I felt that when I joined religious life, I would have more opportunity to do that. And that is how I joined the convent, immediately after high school. I did not even wait for the results of high school to come back so that I could go to university. I joined the convent immediately.

How did you decide which congregation to join?

When I was in school I wondered if I should join the congregation in my school but had not decided. But near my home, there were Italian sisters who had just come who were very friendly, very close to the youth. Whenever we went to the parish, they would play with us. Some of them came from Ecuador, some from Italy, some from Brazil. I can say that what motivated me was admiration of their way of life. I wanted to be like them. I chose the congregation that was in my parish, that I saw every day. I was familiar with them and they knew me, knew my family. So it was very easy. I just went and told them, "I'm desiring to join you." And they were receptive immediately. My parents, my father, and my mother said, "No, no, don't go." Not really because they did not want me to go, but they were worried whether I would succeed!

You joined right away. What happened then?

When I joined the convent, I immediately started the formation sessions, for postulancy. I remember that my mom kept telling me, "Please, come back before it is late. Don't embarrass yourself. Here they want people who are very silent, people who are quiet, and you are very talkative. You won’t make it!" And I was telling my mom, "Just let me try. If God wants it, I'll do it." So I started.

The second year I was sent to Malawi and I did my novitiate there. The standard of living in Malawi is a bit lower compared to Kenya. That made me more motivated to serve, because I saw the need.

Immediately after I finished my novitiate, I was appointed to work in Malawi and I stayed there for another three years, serving the people in Malawi. I was working especially with youth. The experience of working with a different culture was challenging, but it really formed my resilience. I could survive anywhere. It was not easy, but I managed.

I was then assigned to come back to Kenya to get a professional education. I was sent to study as a teacher, and I went to university and did my degree. I was working with youth at the same time.

Once I finished my degree, I taught, only for one year. I was appointed to be in charge of the young girls in Rongo, Homapi, near the lake, in the village where I grew up. The congregation then requested me to take care of the young girls who wanted to be sisters and postulates. So I became a formater. And up to now, as I am speaking to you, I'm a formater of novices. During this period I was also working with the women in the parish of Homapi and with women in the diocese level, as their matron.

During COVID-19, we decided to separate the way we as a congregation did the novitiate so that everyone did their novitiate in their own country (instead of all going to Malawi as we had before). I was appointed to be the novice mistress of our congregation in Kenya. Because we have candidates from Kenya, Tanzania, and Uganda, I take care of the novices from those countries. I stay with the novices, In January this year, my congregation decided to choose me as the regional leader of Kenya and Tanzania. So that is what I am doing now.

So now you're based in Nairobi?

Yes, I am now stationed in Nairobi. I'm working in Westlands and the community nearby, Kangemi. I also work with the women in Kibera, and we have a convent in another slum called Githurai. I engage these women from different slums.

And that takes us back to where you began, talking about working with the women's groups and the observatory, savings groups and small loans. Where do the loans come from?

Our congregation decided to start with just a small group, a small cohort, saying: "Let us try to empower these 20 young women." The first group of 20 women did very well. As we trained them, we also prepared them to save. Every time they came for a meeting, we told them that there's nobody who is so poor that they cannot give anything. Could they start even with just 100 shillings or 150 (that is more or less $1). But if we meet for 10 months, that is $10, and it'll remain there. It doesn't go away. As they learned different skills, that little money they saved built up. The congregation also offered to help. After we finished learning some skills, we gave them their savings plus some start-up funds that the congregation contributed. Those who did cloth making got a sewing machine. Those who did cookery got simple things to start-up a cooking venture, so even if they cooked in the street, they had a presentable place where they could put the food. We tried to equip those who were doing physiotherapy.

Once we finished this phase, we began to engage well wishers. We have been able to convince people even locally. As a congregation, we are banking, keeping our money, with the NCBA bank. I went to talk with the manager of NCBA and I told him, "Look at what we are doing with the women in this slum. If you can be a part of this, we'd really appreciate it." And they gave me something, and we gave it to the women. We thus became accountable to keep track of what happened. At the end of the day we gave them reports. I approached different organizations, locally mostly. Even the Toyota company of Kenya gave us something. So I can say that so far we have managed to get something quite small that can help us to help these women. Even now, when I got the nomination for Georgetown University with a stipend to support the capstone project, we are doing something with the women: we have trained 17 trainers of trainers on positive parenting. Before they do the course, the women have to commit themselves that they're going to train other people in their small Christian community and in their neighborhood. Apart from positive parenting, we also teach different skills.

We accept 20 women. We cannot take more because otherwise the funds are not enough. Once the course is finished, I cannot take another cohort until I'm sure I've got something. But what’s good is that I have seen some women who were empowered and then they ask: "Sister, when are you starting? Because I will sponsor someone." This gives me a lot of courage, because if I get a cohort of 20 and the woman who has been empowered takes another, it gives me a chance to make it 21.

So most of the funds that you have come from the women's savings and then from local support that you're able to raise?

I get a lot of support from local people. When I meet people, I share the project with them and people become interested to help. First they want to see it, and when they see the women learning, they’re convinced and they come to help. As I’m speaking to you, I’m doing the capstone project [part of the Women Faith Leaders Fellowship]. The WWO has told me: "We are very happy with what you're doing. We are going to add some small funds for the women in this slum." I see it as good providence, and I am already thinking, "When this one is finished, what's next? Somebody will come in." I visit different countries for the WWO, so that as we can connect with them online and to see what they're doing on the ground. When I went to Malawi in September, I was able to connect with a certain organization from Spain. They told me that the only way they could help women was by providing chickens, so that the women could learn about chicken rearing and the structures they need. We got involved. Thus I always see the door opening when I share about what we do with women.

What kind of women are joining your groups? What ages? Are there any common characteristics?

We are not rigid about age, but we are trying to bring in women who are not more than 40 or 50, because we are trying to bring young women who are very vulnerable. They have young families and face many problems. The group we have now includes some who became expectant when they were still in school, and they dropped out. What they do in the slum, every morning, is to walk from door to door to wash clothes for people, and thus meet their most basic needs. These kinds of women are young and very energetic, maybe 25 or 30. Photos of our classes show how very young they are (even 16 or 17), but given their culture, nothing sustainable is coming their way. We try to include them. We look more at those who are still raising young families, than the very elderly.

Are they from all different ethnic groups? You said also different religious traditions?

Yes, they come from different ethnic groups and different religions. In the slum, there's a mixture.

The girls who've been to school, do you think they learn much? In other words, is the quality of the schools good, or do you see problems? People say that the children don't learn very much in school.

The quality of the school depends a lot on the kind of school they go to. We have different kinds of schools in Kenya: national schools, county schools, day schools, boarding schools. Some schools are very low quality. That's why we really have to pay more attention to the vulnerable and poor people, because they have few opportunities and even if they might go to a good school, they don’t have the finance to continue. They then have to go to a lower quality school, because there you pay less fees, which is what they can afford. There are different organizations that with offer a bursary or scholarship for poor children who are intelligent or performing well, but they are not able to cover all of them. So some who are poor don’t get a good education because of their financial situation and because the fees are so high.

Some do get the opportunity to go to a good school. I, for example went to a good school, even though we were not rich. My mother was a teacher, so my parents tried hard to send us to good schools. Some who don’t have an opportunity like mine can sometimes go to a good school and if they are intelligent and work hard they can succeed, but too many don’t benefit because their financial situation does not allow it.

When girls drop out of school, is it usually because they're pregnant?

Not all of them. Some who drop out of school are expecting. When I talk to women, I tell them, "If your daughter makes a mistake and conceives at a tender age, let the child be born and then take your child back to school." But it's not only that. In the slum and other areas, drugs cause drop outs. There are a lot of drugs and it's very easy to get them in the slum, though I don’t know how they get there. But life is hard, never easy and if a person is not well prepared, educated, empowered, it’s easy for even a 13-year old to get into trouble. We get many kinds of people and they have many problems, even basic things like sanitary pads. That makes it easy to convince someone who is rich to give me a little something.

Are most girls you work with people who've dropped from school, or do you also find that some girls who have finished school still join your groups?

Quite a good number have dropped out, but I get some who have finished their school but did not perform well. They got a grade that did not allow them to get into a good course, or they finished school but they did not have the funds to continue their education.

So you choose the ones who are in need.

For example, a girl who finished last fall came to me and told me, "Sister, I finished the school, I have a good grade, but I don't know what to do. I'm working as a maid, and the person I'm working for is paying me 1000 in a month and that does not allow me to pay the rent." She passed her exams, but she's not able to go to college and she's not able to find a good paying job. I've taken her intending that she learn a skill, save money, and do catering. For catering, you need some money to start, and I'm not able to give her enough money, but I can help her to gain a skill. Then she can save and study. In the same group, someone dropped out because she was expecting. She gave birth to twins and the twins are blind and she's not able to take care of them. She started to work in a bar. We think it is better to learn a skill and do something that is safe and deserving of dignity. We meet many kinds of young women. Some have finished school, some have been married and their husbands are working, but they're fully dependent on their husband and they have nothing in hand.

That's wonderful work that you're doing. It's one person at a time in many ways

I like taking a small number of 20, because you know them deeply, one by one, and you are able to see where they live. You have personal contact with them. That is practical for me.

Do other sisters in your congregation do similar work, or is this your own special niche?

I had a passion that led me to start the work, but now there are sisters who are joining me, because I cannot do it alone. As I'm working with the WWO, I can be called to go somewhere just when the women have a meeting. The sisters have to know what we do, so they can step in when I'm not there. I'm in a community here in Nairobi with five sisters. Two of them work with me and they have helped me a lot, so they're familiar with this work. I work with the novices, but they're still like students so they cannot take full responsibility but can help us with simple tasks like the record taking. Overall, the sisters share and engage, so they are part of the program. Since the congregation likes this kind of charity work, it is very supportive. But I worry sometimes how we will manage financially. To take an example. We needed to pay for land and the congregation decided to give up sugar for 40 days and put the money in a fund for the women.

That's fascinating. We are very interested in the issue of trust and confidence. What institutions and people do girls and women, and the sisters have confidence in? People may not trust vaccines or schools or the government. Who in Kenya is trusted and who is not? Trust is so fundamental for the society.

Sadly you cannot trust even some religious organizations and cases undermine trust more broadly. There's a lot of corruption in Kenya and some religious groups have come in Kenya with intentions that are not very genuine. A recent example was Shakahola. But I can attest that so far people still have trust and hope in religious sisters. When I talk to women, I say that I need their daughters for 10 days and they can trust them with me. If I ask them to bring or do something, they trust me and put their heart into it.

When I am selecting women in the slum, I'm very cautious. I don't select them only from the church. I go to the slum and meet them. Because I pray in the parish that’s in the slum, I have met them. Sometimes you need people to help you identify those who are in need. Here I sometimes struggle with trust, because you can even ask a priest to help you with somebody who is very vulnerable and he might give you somebody who's not vulnerable, but who he prefers, yet there are those who are far more vulnerable than the ones that he suggests. When I am identifying women to include, I have to go to where they stay. Sometimes someone can present themselves as vulnerable, but when you go there, it's not the same picture. So there's corruption, and lack of transparency that really needs to be checked on.

But in the slum figuring this out is not very demanding, especially when we interact with them one on one. I can say in that case I can trust the decision process. But if it's somebody referred by another person, it can be different and instead of someone who is very vulnerable, they suggest a relative who really is not.

Trust is a complicated issue for all of us. With the internet and with social media, false information is undermining human contact. Do you find that the young girls they rely a lot on social media?

Yes, quite a good number. In fact, part of the education that we are giving them is really to help them not to rely on social media so much, and not to take in everything that is in the social media.

Another challenge is people coming to take them to go and work in Saudi Arabia. They go there, with lots of hope, but they suffer a lot, they get mistreated, and some die there. We try also to encourage them to empower themselves on the ground, where they are, not to look for opportunities outside. We're trying to help them to understand that if they work hard, even here at home, they can still construct what they want. Then tomorrow, if God opens for them the way and they work hard, they can go wherever they want. But start first at home. Many organizations are not very sincere. They come and take them away. Human trafficking is a serious issue, and not just outside the country. It is taking place even within Kenya. If I know that this girl is in the slum, coming from a very poor family, vulnerable, who has not finished school, I take the girl to go and work for a very rich person. A parent who is poor may be ready to release a daughter who is 12 years old to go to another city to work, without continuing her education. That is human trafficking. There’s a lot that we have still to make them aware of.

As you say, there are many different kinds of vulnerabilities. You began by emphasizing education, encouraging girls to get a good education so that they can make their own choices. Without education, they won’t even know what to dream about.

I really believe that through education, their eyes will be opened. Because if they're not educated, they will be very satisfied with the level where they are. But when they're empowered, they're educated, they're able to say, "I can go much beyond here. I have a dream. I cannot remain at this level. I can go far." And for those who are already in married life and with children, I always tell them, "You can still achieve your dream. You can still be a doctor that you dreamt to be, through your child. Empower your child to become a doctor, become a teacher, become whatever you are dreaming to be. You can still achieve it through your child by working hard."