A Discussion with Helene D. Gayle, President and CEO of CARE

With: Helene D. Gayle Berkley Center Profile

April 17, 2014

Background: As president and CEO of CARE USA, Helene Gayle is widely recognized as a global leader on humanitarian issues. She is also a longstanding supporter of girls’ rights. Dr. Gayle joined CARE in 2006 and has led a far-reaching effort to reinforce CARE’s roles in empowering girls and women to bring lasting change to poor communities. Katherine Marshall and Crystal Corman spoke with Dr. Gayle by phone on April 17, 2014, as part of a project focused on the nexus of women, religion, and the family. Dr. Gayle focused on her experience in seeking to raise the priority of women’s empowerment on the agenda, primarily at a global level. She emphasizes the wide diversity of experience, not only among but also within countries and even communities. She also focuses on building trust and working progressively, from positions of trust and finding common ground, and extending dialogue and relationships from that starting point. She also speaks to the important challenge of redefining the roles of men and boys as an essential part of empowering women and girls. She reflects on the roles of religious leaders, stressing the importance of engaging not only the “convinced” but others whose positions are more nuanced or even doubtful.


From your vantage point and involvement on issues that are important for women and girls, do you see religion as an important factor?

Religion plays a huge role in our understanding of how women’s roles are defined in societies, especially insofar as those societies presume a secondary role for women. That is an issue both of perception and of reality. People often cite biblical, Qur’anic, or other holy books as suggesting that women do in fact play (and merit) a more subservient, supportive role in societies and culture. I think the very construct that many people have of a deity that is a “he,” that is “father”—not “mother” or “mother and father” as some have more recently tried to conceive it—sets up a sense of gender hierarchy. That is a starting point. The fact of growing up in most societies where God is “he” gives a very early message to men and women about who is in control and whom it is that we give homage to. That underscores how fundamental and basic the issue is of understanding the respective positions of men and women. The question we need to discuss is how people square their religious beliefs with their understanding or at least what they say is their understanding that women have equal value in society.

In the remarkable work you’re doing with CARE to put girls and women at the forefront, how much engagement have you had with religious figures, negative or positive?

Generally, because we work with communities and focus on issues that are often deeply rooted in cultural beliefs, we work a lot with faith communities. In many of my country visits I have had the chance to meet and work with imams and ministers and other religious figures who are involved in our work. Because we do so much with communities and need to get buy-ins from the communities for our work, almost by definition the faith community comes in. And because of our focus on empowering women in cultures where religion may be one the barriers, we work very hard to make sure that religion, and religious communities, can be on board and part of the dialogue.

Are there any examples of where you’ve had sharp or negative encounters with any religious figures?

Yes. In my years working with HIV/AIDS, there were often challenging discussions with religious figures over issues such as sex education, condom use, and contraception. I think generally issues related to sex and sexuality can be difficult for religious leaders to confront because they are felt to be at odds with religious teachings about monogamy and abstinence.

Have you seen any creative ways religious actors and “feminists” have worked together on issues important for women, girls, and gender issues?

Again, I harken back to my days working with HIV/AIDS, and how tough it was to get religious leaders on board about condoms, contraceptives, and injection equipment. But there are some really creative examples of how people were able, even from the pulpit, to put some of these issues into the discussion and into faith dialogues; real partnerships were formed.

An important part of finding constructive pathways (like anything else) comes down to personal relationships and trust. You start with people you trust and who have trust in you. This includes those who may represent a different side or perspective, in this case the faith community. You find ways to start with common ground and basic trust. You do not necessarily start with people who are at opposite ends of the poles; it’s too difficult even to get them into a room together. But if you get the right people in the room and start with the things people do agree on (e.g. nobody should die from a disease that is preventable), you can have constructive discussions, and they are willing to go out as ambassadors for getting others on board.

In terms of the movement working for women’s rights and empowering girls, what do you see as the next fork in the road?


It takes consistency and a willingness to keep pushing ahead. You’re taking on and challenging societies and communities. This can be controversial. However, it is somewhat ironic that the biggest backlash often times comes from people in the United States, not on the notion that women shouldn’t be empowered, but not understanding the differences between our struggles here and what is going on in other countries. But there are also some basic issues here in the United States that need to be addressed and we need to recognize that. I often get challenged: for example some say, “There are more girls in the United states going to college than men so haven’t we pushed this “women’s thing” far enough? It’s doing damage to our men.” I think about poor communities in this country, particularly communities of color, where African American young men, for example, have dropped out of society. People look at a message that says, “Empower young girls and women,” and then say, “But we are losing our boys and men.” There are parallels with places in Africa where ex-child soldiers or young men who have dropped out of school because of conflict, etc., face major challenges. That may be as important an issue as the problems facing young women.

Thus the messages about empowerment, important as they are, need to be set in the local context. There are challenges if the message around girls’ empowerment is perceived as saying, “Leave out boys and men.” We get that kind of backlash.

A key point is that we have to reshape the way boys and men think of themselves so that we all benefit. It is about understanding how much empowering girls and women is also a story of empowering boys and men to be different, and to step up in their societies in different ways. That’s where I see some of the challenges.

How does this fit with approaches that focus on the family but then conflate the family with male authority?


Even here in the United States, it isn’t that women have an elevated status and this is the reason why young men are losing their way. Often men don’t have a positive enough image about women. This comes from broader societal issues. Saying that women’s success causes men’s failure or the demise of their traditional roles is trying to look at the outcome and give it the wrong causation. It’s not because girls have higher graduating rates from college that men do not. It’s not that women have crowded men out. It’s that we have done a lousy job in raising our young men in a way that helps them to incorporate a healthy image of themselves next to a healthy image of a woman. It’s how you interpret what empowering women and girls looks like. That is true everywhere, even in our society. I still argue that we need to empower girls and women more. We need to continue to give girls and women positive messages, all of which are true. But the confusion and backlash come when we confuse outcomes with what the causes are, and then say let’s go back to the times and visions where male leaders said, “Women should be in the kitchen at home, and let our men be men.”

Some religious traditions are trying to play a role by opening up leadership positions to women. Do you think this has or can change things?

Even seeing women in the pulpit starts shifting people’s mindset around traditional notion of a male dominated religious hierarchy. It starts to shift that very visual part of forming views when women are seen in the pulpit.

Are there any particularly wise religious leaders who in your opinion might be strong voices supporting issues for women and girls, who might shake people up on complicated gender issues?

I’m not sure that it is going to take leaders in the way that we think of leadership, that is, as somebody on high, to lead the change. What is more important is to diffuse the attitudes within cultures and communities. There is so much skepticism over “leaders” and we need to take note of it, and not to rely too heavily even on the most admirable leaders. Sometimes hearing things from a very unlikely suspect has a greater impact than hearing it from the usual suspects. When Jesse Helms supported the AIDS Act, that made a difference. Then people who were unconvinced started to take note. If Jesse is willing to support an AIDS bill, then there must be something in there.

It will take some work to find the new voices. Maybe that’s part of a good new idea: starting a campaign of the skeptical to help build a coalition around this issue.

Do you have any examples of outliers—maybe women or men—who are champions for women, who you’ve seen stand up and say that they want to see women’s and girls’ role be different in the household? Maybe they use religion, maybe not.

As I have traveled, I have met men from different parts of the world who stand up and say, “I used to mistreat and abuse my wife, but now that I’ve had some ability to get some perspective on this, I’ve totally changed and I’m evangelizing to other men.” Men do come out and say how important it is to value their wives. It is partly when they have been exposed to new ideas but also when they see the benefits of empowering women in the form of higher family incomes and healthier partnerships. They begin to realize that if their wives are empowered, it has a positive benefit for the man and the family. They become eager to spread the word.

Do you have any sense that a particular region or country seems to be getting “it” faster?

I think there are many parts of the world where people are getting “it.” I think societies where women have had access to education and income and see that they reap the benefits are getting it faster than where women have been left behind. But, it’s hard to make categorical statements that this country or that country is better. Discriminating against women and girls is so ingrained in culture. That is true even in places where you have visionary leadership or you see progress at a macro level. At the community level you may still see very young girls getting married and having too many children too early even though the country may have leadership that is very enlightened about the need for gender equality. It’s a mixed bag and just says to me that change takes persistence, patience and time.

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