A Discussion with Marc Tapsoba, Professor, Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso
With: Marc Tapsoba Berkley Center Profile
July 24, 2014
Background: As part of the Education and Social Justice project, undergraduate student Hopey Fink interviewed Marc Tapsoba, a university professor and former Jesuit, in July 2014. In this interview, Tapsoba discusses the Jesuit values of discernment and cura personalis in the context of his teaching, as well as the roles of technology and creativity in the education system in Burkina Faso.
Could you begin by introducing yourself?
My name is Marc Wend-la-sida Tapsoba. I was a Jesuit—I joined the Society the same day as Father Kabore. But I left the Society four years ago. I did all of my studies—novitiate, theology, etc. Now I am married and I have a daughter. I teach in secondary establishments and professional and superior schools. For the moment I’m teaching Latin at the university. Next year, I will be teaching Latin and also some seminary and anthropology. I have worked a lot in education, during my Jesuit formation. I have reflected a lot on Jesuit education; I was able to participate in a conference on leadership in the Society of Jesus in Francophone Africa. Here I worked in Ouagadougou after Cotonou. In 2008 I worked at CERCLE [Center of Studies and Reflection for Students (le Centre d’Etude et de Réflexion pour Collégiens, Lycéens et Etudiants)] also, as coordinator of human and spiritual activities. I gave philosophy courses here too.
In terms of Jesuit pedagogy, we have here what we call cura personalis. The center was founded as a place for study and reflection. We have chalkboards and libraries to help the poor children of this neighborhood. There were not a lot of places for them to study. The Society underwent discernment here. The philosophy of the Jesuits is to do what you can where you are. So they reflected on the best way to serve the people here, and they decided it was in the area of education. They made sure to have electricity and books and silence—and accompaniment services. This is all part of cura personalis: care of the whole person.
We have had to reevaluate this through discernment throughout the life of the center, to think of how best to serve the students of the present day. Starting in the 2000s, the response was to focus on technology and information so that students could be best informed and cultivated in the perspective of globalization. They had to buy things—me I insisted that we buy a video projector.
When I came they offered courses in specific subjects especially for those in the exam class. The condition was that those who fail would come to this Jesuit institution to choose how to decide their mission. The beneficiaries must be those who have the greatest need—the “preferential option for the poor.” Who are the poor? The poor in this context are those students who have failed—once, twice, three times.
But when we had these courses, there was lots of noise. It was like a middle school. Those who came to work in the libraries were annoyed. There was also the financial aspect. It was hard to support the courses. I was in support though. We could have turned the whole place into a middle school or an institute of higher education with a third floor here. With a bit of financing, we could have done it.
When a student gets a diploma here, it is not just a diploma for him. It is an entire family that gains. At least ten people—his own family and even his extended family.
So I think it was a good discernment to focus on the mission of CERCLE.
People who come here do not only have study problems sometimes. They have real problems—social, spiritual. My office, which was right there, was always full of people seeking help. There were even a few suicidal students, and lots of girls with love problems. You must have an attentive presence, a compassionate presence. For that, the Jesuits are exceptional—it is really cura personalis. It is a care of every part of the person.
How is that different here and in the other institutions where you work?
You must know that there is a lot of corruption. And there is a question of morality. Often there are problems between educator and student—you know, with girls. When I was here, there were some problems. That was why the Jesuit presence was important. And that is why they needed to discern about the mission of the center. The physical presence of a Jesuit director, someone who understands the mission and can act on it, is very important, so it was difficult when Father Jacques was here and also at the spiritual center. We could have helped some of these problems with more spiritual direction.
In the spirituality of Saint Ignatius, there is what we call the two fears: servile fear and brotherly fear. We must impart the fear of power—this helps with the brotherly fear. There was also a problem with a lay person who was employed here as accountant. The father director had complete trust in him, but there were some issues. Because the superior was not in place.
A lot of people have tried to organize support courses since we stopped. But none of them are like they were here—here the quality was exceptional, because of the accompaniment and individual attention to cura personalis. It made a big difference.
To return to the experience after the stopping of these courses, the directors discussed a lot. They now send young novices here for their internship experience. How can the young educate the young? They do not really understand the spirit of the Society of Jesus. It cannot really work to transmit values. Between themselves, young people relativize things. And we have a necessity of a stable presence here. Father Augustin needs to reflect on originality, too. There is a bit of dispersion when it comes to the mission of the Society here.
It is the choice of the province, who is sent here?
Yes, every year or two years, there are a couple of young Jesuits who come for an internship here before they study theology. But since we stopped those courses, these young novices have been forced to do some para-education too. The center is obligated to count on them. There are not enough scholastics or theologians.
What do the priests at the parish of St. Peter think?
First they asked the question of land—the land belongs to the diocese. This used to function well, with the Jesuits using it. The parish priests used to come give Mass at CERCLE, and they would organize retreats as well. Now, the relationship is a bit more strained. All the young people who come here go there and talk, so the priests there know what is going on. They listen, and they are not always happy with the Jesuits.
For you personally, have you always had an interest in education?
Oh yes, always! You construct a family from education. You construct a nation from education. You even construct the world from education. Development happens because of education.
Now I am a professor of French and philosophy. I teach also English, conflict resolution, and Latin. My favorite subjects are philosophy and anthropology—really everything!
What is the most difficult subject to teach? Do you have different teaching approaches for different materials?
The problem with the students is laziness. They do not want to study or make an effort to cultivate their knowledge. But there are some who study very well—they are not very numerous. You have to sensitize them during classes, and even moralize them. You must try yourself to be an example. You cannot just come and give a lecture. You have to also encourage original research and reading. During my formation, I benefited greatly from professors who had studied in the United States and knew the system of papers—that is not done here, even at the university. There are exams and homework, but not research.
What exactly is the difference between reinforcement courses and support courses here at CERCLE?
The difference is at the level of organization and the quantity of subjects. The reinforcement courses are in the subjects where students are weakest; these are the courses that still exist. When we speak of support courses, those are for those who have failed the exam and want to re-learn to take the exam again. There are also more individualized courses for those who have not yet taken a course. The support courses for those who have failed are now stopped. Now the courses CERCLE offers are not only for those who have failed, but also for those who are registered elsewhere.
What is your biggest pride?
What I am most proud of is the quality of relationships between me and the students. I love it when students stop me in the streets after graduating—it is fraternal. There are connections, and friendship. Secondly, I am proud of the success of my students. I am also happy when the school functions well, and when I can have relationships with my fellow professors. I think the Jesuits talk a lot of magis, but they could do a lot more. They could be more engaged. They much focus on a complex education, taking secondary students and bringing them to university level. I wish they could find another space of land and build a higher learning institution. Funds would come from solidarity.
My name is Marc Wend-la-sida Tapsoba. I was a Jesuit—I joined the Society the same day as Father Kabore. But I left the Society four years ago. I did all of my studies—novitiate, theology, etc. Now I am married and I have a daughter. I teach in secondary establishments and professional and superior schools. For the moment I’m teaching Latin at the university. Next year, I will be teaching Latin and also some seminary and anthropology. I have worked a lot in education, during my Jesuit formation. I have reflected a lot on Jesuit education; I was able to participate in a conference on leadership in the Society of Jesus in Francophone Africa. Here I worked in Ouagadougou after Cotonou. In 2008 I worked at CERCLE [Center of Studies and Reflection for Students (le Centre d’Etude et de Réflexion pour Collégiens, Lycéens et Etudiants)] also, as coordinator of human and spiritual activities. I gave philosophy courses here too.
In terms of Jesuit pedagogy, we have here what we call cura personalis. The center was founded as a place for study and reflection. We have chalkboards and libraries to help the poor children of this neighborhood. There were not a lot of places for them to study. The Society underwent discernment here. The philosophy of the Jesuits is to do what you can where you are. So they reflected on the best way to serve the people here, and they decided it was in the area of education. They made sure to have electricity and books and silence—and accompaniment services. This is all part of cura personalis: care of the whole person.
We have had to reevaluate this through discernment throughout the life of the center, to think of how best to serve the students of the present day. Starting in the 2000s, the response was to focus on technology and information so that students could be best informed and cultivated in the perspective of globalization. They had to buy things—me I insisted that we buy a video projector.
When I came they offered courses in specific subjects especially for those in the exam class. The condition was that those who fail would come to this Jesuit institution to choose how to decide their mission. The beneficiaries must be those who have the greatest need—the “preferential option for the poor.” Who are the poor? The poor in this context are those students who have failed—once, twice, three times.
But when we had these courses, there was lots of noise. It was like a middle school. Those who came to work in the libraries were annoyed. There was also the financial aspect. It was hard to support the courses. I was in support though. We could have turned the whole place into a middle school or an institute of higher education with a third floor here. With a bit of financing, we could have done it.
When a student gets a diploma here, it is not just a diploma for him. It is an entire family that gains. At least ten people—his own family and even his extended family.
So I think it was a good discernment to focus on the mission of CERCLE.
People who come here do not only have study problems sometimes. They have real problems—social, spiritual. My office, which was right there, was always full of people seeking help. There were even a few suicidal students, and lots of girls with love problems. You must have an attentive presence, a compassionate presence. For that, the Jesuits are exceptional—it is really cura personalis. It is a care of every part of the person.
How is that different here and in the other institutions where you work?
You must know that there is a lot of corruption. And there is a question of morality. Often there are problems between educator and student—you know, with girls. When I was here, there were some problems. That was why the Jesuit presence was important. And that is why they needed to discern about the mission of the center. The physical presence of a Jesuit director, someone who understands the mission and can act on it, is very important, so it was difficult when Father Jacques was here and also at the spiritual center. We could have helped some of these problems with more spiritual direction.
In the spirituality of Saint Ignatius, there is what we call the two fears: servile fear and brotherly fear. We must impart the fear of power—this helps with the brotherly fear. There was also a problem with a lay person who was employed here as accountant. The father director had complete trust in him, but there were some issues. Because the superior was not in place.
A lot of people have tried to organize support courses since we stopped. But none of them are like they were here—here the quality was exceptional, because of the accompaniment and individual attention to cura personalis. It made a big difference.
To return to the experience after the stopping of these courses, the directors discussed a lot. They now send young novices here for their internship experience. How can the young educate the young? They do not really understand the spirit of the Society of Jesus. It cannot really work to transmit values. Between themselves, young people relativize things. And we have a necessity of a stable presence here. Father Augustin needs to reflect on originality, too. There is a bit of dispersion when it comes to the mission of the Society here.
It is the choice of the province, who is sent here?
Yes, every year or two years, there are a couple of young Jesuits who come for an internship here before they study theology. But since we stopped those courses, these young novices have been forced to do some para-education too. The center is obligated to count on them. There are not enough scholastics or theologians.
What do the priests at the parish of St. Peter think?
First they asked the question of land—the land belongs to the diocese. This used to function well, with the Jesuits using it. The parish priests used to come give Mass at CERCLE, and they would organize retreats as well. Now, the relationship is a bit more strained. All the young people who come here go there and talk, so the priests there know what is going on. They listen, and they are not always happy with the Jesuits.
For you personally, have you always had an interest in education?
Oh yes, always! You construct a family from education. You construct a nation from education. You even construct the world from education. Development happens because of education.
Now I am a professor of French and philosophy. I teach also English, conflict resolution, and Latin. My favorite subjects are philosophy and anthropology—really everything!
What is the most difficult subject to teach? Do you have different teaching approaches for different materials?
The problem with the students is laziness. They do not want to study or make an effort to cultivate their knowledge. But there are some who study very well—they are not very numerous. You have to sensitize them during classes, and even moralize them. You must try yourself to be an example. You cannot just come and give a lecture. You have to also encourage original research and reading. During my formation, I benefited greatly from professors who had studied in the United States and knew the system of papers—that is not done here, even at the university. There are exams and homework, but not research.
What exactly is the difference between reinforcement courses and support courses here at CERCLE?
The difference is at the level of organization and the quantity of subjects. The reinforcement courses are in the subjects where students are weakest; these are the courses that still exist. When we speak of support courses, those are for those who have failed the exam and want to re-learn to take the exam again. There are also more individualized courses for those who have not yet taken a course. The support courses for those who have failed are now stopped. Now the courses CERCLE offers are not only for those who have failed, but also for those who are registered elsewhere.
What is your biggest pride?
What I am most proud of is the quality of relationships between me and the students. I love it when students stop me in the streets after graduating—it is fraternal. There are connections, and friendship. Secondly, I am proud of the success of my students. I am also happy when the school functions well, and when I can have relationships with my fellow professors. I think the Jesuits talk a lot of magis, but they could do a lot more. They could be more engaged. They much focus on a complex education, taking secondary students and bringing them to university level. I wish they could find another space of land and build a higher learning institution. Funds would come from solidarity.
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