A Discussion with Márton Horváth, Spirit Team Leader, and Kristóf Hódsági, Student Committee Member, St. Ignatius Jesuit College, Budapest, Hungary
With: Kristóf Hódsági Berkley Center Profile Márton Horváth Berkley Center Profile
June 2, 2016
Background: As part of the Education and Social Justice Project, in June 2016 undergraduate student Sarah Jannarone interviewed Márton Horváth and Kristóf Hódsági, who are undergraduate students at the Semmelweis University of Medicine and the Budapest University of Technology and Economics respectively. They live at St. Ignatius Jesuit College, the model for Jesuit residential colleges in Central Europe. In this interview, they discuss their experiences living at the college, including the community and interactive academic courses that the college provides, and their perceptions about Catholicism in Slovenia.
Can you tell me a bit about yourselves?
Márton Horváth: My name is Márton. I’m from Sopron, Hungary. I came here two years ago when I started to study medicine in Budapest. Before coming to university I applied to live in this college. I really love studying, especially biology. I think I want to be a psychiatrist or a neurologist. I was a member of some religious communities, similar to Boy Scouts, but with Hungarian values. It was kind of like a parish without a church—there was a community and a priest, and we organized camps for children. That was my connection to the church or religious communities before coming here, but I wasn’t educated by Jesuits before.
The first time I met a Jesuit was when I arrived here. I heard about them because I was in contact with many priests in Sopron, who were in contact in Jesuits. Being educated by Jesuits wasn’t my priority for coming to this college, but in the past two years I think this has changed, because I am now very impressed by Jesuits.
Kristóf Hódsági: I’m Kristóf, and I study physics at the technical university here. This is my third year. I’m from Gyor, Hungary, where I attended a Benedictine secondary school. I was a part of the religious community that was in connection with Jesuits, but I didn’t really know much about them before I came here. Concerning physics, I really like it, though sometimes I don’t, depending on the teacher that I have. I’ve had some reflection about this. We study here philosophy and some theology. People here from every field of science have conversations, and that has given me a more critical view of physics. Lately this lessened my motivation a bit because I don’t think physics is the only way to reach the truth, but I think it’s important to have this critical view. And this college and the Jesuit education was a really big deal for me. I didn’t really know what to expect when I applied, and it was a pleasant surprise.
What services are you provided with here?
Horváth: It’s hard because we have a different system of education every year, but I studied international relations, essay writing, debate techniques, and then last year there were different kinds of stuff, like mathematical curiosities and learning about the Copernican turn.
Hódsági: The whole point is to gather Christian students from different universities in Budapest, and also from all areas of studies. We learn a really wide spectrum of things. I myself studied philosophy, a bit of Jesuit history, law; I had a course on intercultural education in English and a bit of psychology. The logic behind this is to provide courses which are sometimes theoretical but mostly focus on debate between students, so it’s kind of an interactive, theoretical mixture. And we have skill courses like essay writing, which Márton mentioned, and Jesuit prayer methods. The upperclassmen also participate in projects, and they decide the topic. I was in a science course in the first semester, and now I participate in a project that tries to find new ways to measure blood sugar. But this project topics are very wide: for instance, there was one on immigration issues last semester.
Horváth: And the students can organize courses themselves. If they find a lecturer who is really good in something, they can organize a course around that person.
Are there opportunities for self-formation besides academics?
Hódsági: There are a list of compulsory courses that we all have to take, but apart from these courses we have the opportunity to, say, participate in a choir, attend a retreat, or participate in a charity organization.
What is the mission of this college?
Horváth: This is the essential question. I think it is about exposure to different aspects of the world and society. The mission is also to expose us to and live with different kinds of people; we have to find a way to talk with each other and understand each other.
How is a sense of community formed?
Hódsági: There are many organized programs. We have compulsory programs like summer camp at the end of August. We also have “college weekends,” where we all go away somewhere together and we play team-building activities.
Horváth: We also all work on different teams within the college, and there is a team that focuses on community building.
Hódsági: There are certain programs each week, which are sometimes focused on community, sometimes on academics, and sometimes spiritual issues.
How is community important to education?
Hódsági: I would connect this with the question concerning the mission. For me, the advantage of this college is to show me how to be responsible for my own opinion. In our public education we are not asked for our personal opinions; we just have to reiterate the knowledge we were given, and it’s not our opinion. Here, there are 60 students and not much hierarchy between us. We have certain positions, but they don't really matter—we are equal partners in dialogues and conversations. I think because of the sense of community we basically have debates and dialogues each day. It’s really this whole atmosphere of debate-loving people which makes education here really unique. Our courses here can’t compete with the level that we receive at university, but how we are taught is really different. It’s a mindset that we learn here, and we couldn’t do this without having such a community.
Horváth: What we learn here is useful in real life and for our future, even when it’s not connected with our academic field. For example, I study law here. In my course, we learned about different laws, and the teacher wrote us some cases to solve. Of course we don't have a lot of experience in law, so we really had to think about it. It was interesting because we had debates about the cases; many times after the course was over we just stayed there and discussed what we had learned, which doesn’t happen at our universities.
In general, would you say that there are opportunities for this type of learning in Budapest?
Hódsági: There are other colleges, but it’s not so widespread. I don’t know of any university that enhances education and provides interactive courses.
Horváth: There are a few science universities where students live that provide extra courses, but these are only academic. At my university there is an education program for well-performing students. Usually any extra programs provided are only academic, and not interdisciplinary.
Hódsági: I like the teamwork and project focused learning here. In Hungary, you can go through 20 years of education, and then once it’s time to get your Ph.D., it could be 16 years of education without you ever having to form a single opinion for yourself.
Horváth: We also work here, not only learn or study. We do projects and organize programs. It’s fun and important.
Hódsági: I think it could be included in our extra-academic learning here that we work in teams and learn how to be leaders. Márton is a leader of a team and attends a leadership skill course every year.
So in general you are given extra opportunities versus your peers who don’t live in a residential college?
Horváth: Yes.
Hódsági: Yes, though that comes with extra responsibilities.
What is the cost of staying here versus state dormitories?
Horváth: This is more expensive than an ordinary dormitory but not by much, considering the extra services that we get.
Hódsági: I think this is three times more expensive than the cheapest opportunity to stay in a state dorm. But the building itself is worth this extra expense. The state dorms are sometimes not in great condition.
Is there financial aid offered?
Hódsági: There is a social scholarship which pays for half of the student’s expense.
How do think the college promotes social justice, if you think it does at all?
Horváth: One way is that by living together with people in different fields we learn about social justice through the debates that we have together and how we behave with the others living here. It’s not a special course or something that we study in particular, but it’s something that we experience. It’s an opportunity learn about and experience justice and society.
As far as our programs for charity, I don’t know how effective they are. There is a summer camp that we put on for Hungarian children who live outside of the official Hungarian border that I think works well. We also have to take a compulsory course on charity, and one about global issues. Next year we plan to volunteer outside of the college.
Hódsági: I think social justice could be interpreted here as a kind of cura personalis. When, for example, Márton is a leader of a team and one of his team member is suffering, he goes to talk to him. We are trying to cultivate humanity in the college.
How are you perceived as a Catholic in Hungary?
Horváth: I think throughout most of my life I was in a bubble. I studied in a secondary grammar school run by nuns, and I lived in a town where most of the people are Catholic. When I came here to Budapest and met my peers at the university, almost none of them were religious, which was the first time I experienced that.
For example, though it’s true that most of our lectures at university are lectures, I took one course called Medical Communication and Sociology in small groups. The teacher would give us social problems that we had to discuss, like abortion and euthanasia. I was able to express my Catholic point of view, and the others accepted that. When I told them that I lived in a Jesuit residential college they thought I was studying to be a priest, but when I explained what it was to them they were impressed. It was a good way to start a conversation about my religion in our secular group. I only have great experiences being Catholic in Hungary.
Hódsági: I think I was also in a bubble, and living here I am still find myself in a bubble. At my university it’s different because I study physics, which means most of my teachers are expressly in the church of science.
I think there is a certain lack of information of the Catholic Church. It could be because we live in bubbles as Catholics; it could be there is a world outside of those bubbles. I find it difficult to have a conversation about spiritual and religious topics with my peers, but it could be because they study physics and think that it is so objective that they don’t need philosophical or existential questions.
How do you think the communist history has affected Catholicism today in Hungary?
Hódsági: It’s certainly that separate bubbles have been formed because there isn’t not much communication between these two worlds. For example, there are newspapers for Catholics and non-Catholics. It’s not really possible to start a dialogue because we don’t have the same information.
Horváth: When comparing Catholicism in the western part of Europe and the eastern part of Europe, it’s apparent that the Second Vatican Council took a long time to reach Hungary. We were closed off because of the Iron Curtain. I don’t know how to express it, but sometimes I fear that the priests are a bit too strict. For example, the Jesuits have shown me a complete new way of thinking about Catholicism versus what I experienced before.
Hódsági: I think the Jesuits have always been different throughout history. Due to communism it could also be that the Church had to be more conservative.
How are Jesuits different to Catholics here?
Horváth: I think the Jesuits can be more brave and more open compared to ordinary priests.
Hódsági: There’s a good example with the refugees. While the Hungarian Church was confused about how to approach the situation and didn’t know what to do, the Jesuits built up a Jesuit Refugee Service here.
Horváth: Concerning the communist past, I feel that the Church in Hungary is still financially and sometimes ideologically dependent on the state. If the government is conservative, then that’s good for the Church and if they aren’t, then that isn’t so good for the Church. Now that the government is conservative they give the church some money, and so the Church says what is good for the government. But I think the different orders like the Jesuit or Benedictine orders are more independent; both of these orders insisted on letting the refugees into Hungary.
Hódsági: Also, in the fall students here were able to organize a project that took residents here to the refugee camps every weekend to help. There’s also a Muslim family and Syrian professor that live here.
What are the limitations or challenges that the college faces?
Hódsági: I think mostly overdoing things and not getting enough sleep is a common disease here. Keeping second- or third-year students motivated is also an issue.
I think the limitations are mostly time-based. We’re here on an average for three years, which means it will never be a constant community because of this three-year lifespan. It’s this dynamic where one-fourth of the community is always being replaced with new people. This is why we never have a certain direction, but this may not be the purpose of the college and may be an opportunity.
Horváth: We have many challenges, but there is always a way to improve any situation. Challenges in a way keep the community together, because we discuss how to solve them together.
What is the application and admissions process like?
Horváth: First you have to send your CV listing your past accomplishments.
Hódsági: Then there are five to 10 essay questions, and there is an application committee which decides who to offer interviews to. I think there are about 100 applications per year, and 80 applicants proceed to the second round, and then around 30 applicants come to spend the weekend here and have interviews with Jesuits, the rector, and the student selection committee. Fifteen to 20 new students are accepted each year.
What are you most proud of?
Hódsági: I would say I’m proud of most of the first-year students here this year. I was on the student selection committee, and I think we made really good choices. Watching them this year made me really proud of myself for this achievement.
Horváth: I would say I’m really proud leading the Spirit Team. They are really cool and motivated people, and they motivate me. I heard that the Spirit Team made an improvement this year, so maybe I can claim to have had a part in that.
Márton Horváth: My name is Márton. I’m from Sopron, Hungary. I came here two years ago when I started to study medicine in Budapest. Before coming to university I applied to live in this college. I really love studying, especially biology. I think I want to be a psychiatrist or a neurologist. I was a member of some religious communities, similar to Boy Scouts, but with Hungarian values. It was kind of like a parish without a church—there was a community and a priest, and we organized camps for children. That was my connection to the church or religious communities before coming here, but I wasn’t educated by Jesuits before.
The first time I met a Jesuit was when I arrived here. I heard about them because I was in contact with many priests in Sopron, who were in contact in Jesuits. Being educated by Jesuits wasn’t my priority for coming to this college, but in the past two years I think this has changed, because I am now very impressed by Jesuits.
Kristóf Hódsági: I’m Kristóf, and I study physics at the technical university here. This is my third year. I’m from Gyor, Hungary, where I attended a Benedictine secondary school. I was a part of the religious community that was in connection with Jesuits, but I didn’t really know much about them before I came here. Concerning physics, I really like it, though sometimes I don’t, depending on the teacher that I have. I’ve had some reflection about this. We study here philosophy and some theology. People here from every field of science have conversations, and that has given me a more critical view of physics. Lately this lessened my motivation a bit because I don’t think physics is the only way to reach the truth, but I think it’s important to have this critical view. And this college and the Jesuit education was a really big deal for me. I didn’t really know what to expect when I applied, and it was a pleasant surprise.
What services are you provided with here?
Horváth: It’s hard because we have a different system of education every year, but I studied international relations, essay writing, debate techniques, and then last year there were different kinds of stuff, like mathematical curiosities and learning about the Copernican turn.
Hódsági: The whole point is to gather Christian students from different universities in Budapest, and also from all areas of studies. We learn a really wide spectrum of things. I myself studied philosophy, a bit of Jesuit history, law; I had a course on intercultural education in English and a bit of psychology. The logic behind this is to provide courses which are sometimes theoretical but mostly focus on debate between students, so it’s kind of an interactive, theoretical mixture. And we have skill courses like essay writing, which Márton mentioned, and Jesuit prayer methods. The upperclassmen also participate in projects, and they decide the topic. I was in a science course in the first semester, and now I participate in a project that tries to find new ways to measure blood sugar. But this project topics are very wide: for instance, there was one on immigration issues last semester.
Horváth: And the students can organize courses themselves. If they find a lecturer who is really good in something, they can organize a course around that person.
Are there opportunities for self-formation besides academics?
Hódsági: There are a list of compulsory courses that we all have to take, but apart from these courses we have the opportunity to, say, participate in a choir, attend a retreat, or participate in a charity organization.
What is the mission of this college?
Horváth: This is the essential question. I think it is about exposure to different aspects of the world and society. The mission is also to expose us to and live with different kinds of people; we have to find a way to talk with each other and understand each other.
How is a sense of community formed?
Hódsági: There are many organized programs. We have compulsory programs like summer camp at the end of August. We also have “college weekends,” where we all go away somewhere together and we play team-building activities.
Horváth: We also all work on different teams within the college, and there is a team that focuses on community building.
Hódsági: There are certain programs each week, which are sometimes focused on community, sometimes on academics, and sometimes spiritual issues.
How is community important to education?
Hódsági: I would connect this with the question concerning the mission. For me, the advantage of this college is to show me how to be responsible for my own opinion. In our public education we are not asked for our personal opinions; we just have to reiterate the knowledge we were given, and it’s not our opinion. Here, there are 60 students and not much hierarchy between us. We have certain positions, but they don't really matter—we are equal partners in dialogues and conversations. I think because of the sense of community we basically have debates and dialogues each day. It’s really this whole atmosphere of debate-loving people which makes education here really unique. Our courses here can’t compete with the level that we receive at university, but how we are taught is really different. It’s a mindset that we learn here, and we couldn’t do this without having such a community.
Horváth: What we learn here is useful in real life and for our future, even when it’s not connected with our academic field. For example, I study law here. In my course, we learned about different laws, and the teacher wrote us some cases to solve. Of course we don't have a lot of experience in law, so we really had to think about it. It was interesting because we had debates about the cases; many times after the course was over we just stayed there and discussed what we had learned, which doesn’t happen at our universities.
In general, would you say that there are opportunities for this type of learning in Budapest?
Hódsági: There are other colleges, but it’s not so widespread. I don’t know of any university that enhances education and provides interactive courses.
Horváth: There are a few science universities where students live that provide extra courses, but these are only academic. At my university there is an education program for well-performing students. Usually any extra programs provided are only academic, and not interdisciplinary.
Hódsági: I like the teamwork and project focused learning here. In Hungary, you can go through 20 years of education, and then once it’s time to get your Ph.D., it could be 16 years of education without you ever having to form a single opinion for yourself.
Horváth: We also work here, not only learn or study. We do projects and organize programs. It’s fun and important.
Hódsági: I think it could be included in our extra-academic learning here that we work in teams and learn how to be leaders. Márton is a leader of a team and attends a leadership skill course every year.
So in general you are given extra opportunities versus your peers who don’t live in a residential college?
Horváth: Yes.
Hódsági: Yes, though that comes with extra responsibilities.
What is the cost of staying here versus state dormitories?
Horváth: This is more expensive than an ordinary dormitory but not by much, considering the extra services that we get.
Hódsági: I think this is three times more expensive than the cheapest opportunity to stay in a state dorm. But the building itself is worth this extra expense. The state dorms are sometimes not in great condition.
Is there financial aid offered?
Hódsági: There is a social scholarship which pays for half of the student’s expense.
How do think the college promotes social justice, if you think it does at all?
Horváth: One way is that by living together with people in different fields we learn about social justice through the debates that we have together and how we behave with the others living here. It’s not a special course or something that we study in particular, but it’s something that we experience. It’s an opportunity learn about and experience justice and society.
As far as our programs for charity, I don’t know how effective they are. There is a summer camp that we put on for Hungarian children who live outside of the official Hungarian border that I think works well. We also have to take a compulsory course on charity, and one about global issues. Next year we plan to volunteer outside of the college.
Hódsági: I think social justice could be interpreted here as a kind of cura personalis. When, for example, Márton is a leader of a team and one of his team member is suffering, he goes to talk to him. We are trying to cultivate humanity in the college.
How are you perceived as a Catholic in Hungary?
Horváth: I think throughout most of my life I was in a bubble. I studied in a secondary grammar school run by nuns, and I lived in a town where most of the people are Catholic. When I came here to Budapest and met my peers at the university, almost none of them were religious, which was the first time I experienced that.
For example, though it’s true that most of our lectures at university are lectures, I took one course called Medical Communication and Sociology in small groups. The teacher would give us social problems that we had to discuss, like abortion and euthanasia. I was able to express my Catholic point of view, and the others accepted that. When I told them that I lived in a Jesuit residential college they thought I was studying to be a priest, but when I explained what it was to them they were impressed. It was a good way to start a conversation about my religion in our secular group. I only have great experiences being Catholic in Hungary.
Hódsági: I think I was also in a bubble, and living here I am still find myself in a bubble. At my university it’s different because I study physics, which means most of my teachers are expressly in the church of science.
I think there is a certain lack of information of the Catholic Church. It could be because we live in bubbles as Catholics; it could be there is a world outside of those bubbles. I find it difficult to have a conversation about spiritual and religious topics with my peers, but it could be because they study physics and think that it is so objective that they don’t need philosophical or existential questions.
How do you think the communist history has affected Catholicism today in Hungary?
Hódsági: It’s certainly that separate bubbles have been formed because there isn’t not much communication between these two worlds. For example, there are newspapers for Catholics and non-Catholics. It’s not really possible to start a dialogue because we don’t have the same information.
Horváth: When comparing Catholicism in the western part of Europe and the eastern part of Europe, it’s apparent that the Second Vatican Council took a long time to reach Hungary. We were closed off because of the Iron Curtain. I don’t know how to express it, but sometimes I fear that the priests are a bit too strict. For example, the Jesuits have shown me a complete new way of thinking about Catholicism versus what I experienced before.
Hódsági: I think the Jesuits have always been different throughout history. Due to communism it could also be that the Church had to be more conservative.
How are Jesuits different to Catholics here?
Horváth: I think the Jesuits can be more brave and more open compared to ordinary priests.
Hódsági: There’s a good example with the refugees. While the Hungarian Church was confused about how to approach the situation and didn’t know what to do, the Jesuits built up a Jesuit Refugee Service here.
Horváth: Concerning the communist past, I feel that the Church in Hungary is still financially and sometimes ideologically dependent on the state. If the government is conservative, then that’s good for the Church and if they aren’t, then that isn’t so good for the Church. Now that the government is conservative they give the church some money, and so the Church says what is good for the government. But I think the different orders like the Jesuit or Benedictine orders are more independent; both of these orders insisted on letting the refugees into Hungary.
Hódsági: Also, in the fall students here were able to organize a project that took residents here to the refugee camps every weekend to help. There’s also a Muslim family and Syrian professor that live here.
What are the limitations or challenges that the college faces?
Hódsági: I think mostly overdoing things and not getting enough sleep is a common disease here. Keeping second- or third-year students motivated is also an issue.
I think the limitations are mostly time-based. We’re here on an average for three years, which means it will never be a constant community because of this three-year lifespan. It’s this dynamic where one-fourth of the community is always being replaced with new people. This is why we never have a certain direction, but this may not be the purpose of the college and may be an opportunity.
Horváth: We have many challenges, but there is always a way to improve any situation. Challenges in a way keep the community together, because we discuss how to solve them together.
What is the application and admissions process like?
Horváth: First you have to send your CV listing your past accomplishments.
Hódsági: Then there are five to 10 essay questions, and there is an application committee which decides who to offer interviews to. I think there are about 100 applications per year, and 80 applicants proceed to the second round, and then around 30 applicants come to spend the weekend here and have interviews with Jesuits, the rector, and the student selection committee. Fifteen to 20 new students are accepted each year.
Hódsági: I would say I’m proud of most of the first-year students here this year. I was on the student selection committee, and I think we made really good choices. Watching them this year made me really proud of myself for this achievement.
Horváth: I would say I’m really proud leading the Spirit Team. They are really cool and motivated people, and they motivate me. I heard that the Spirit Team made an improvement this year, so maybe I can claim to have had a part in that.
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