Berkley Center

Background: As part of the Education and Social Justice Project, in May 2018 undergraduate student Brittany Fried interviewed Micomyiza Dieudonne, Kitwe outreach regional officer of the Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection (JCTR). In this interview, Dieudonne discusses his work with natural resource governance and public investment in children.

How long have you worked for JCTR, and what made you get involved with them?

I’ve worked with JCTR for the past two years. [I got involved because] I’m a Catholic, first of all. I’m from Rwanda originally. I came to Zambia as a refugee, and I lived in a refugee camp. My father died in the war, so my mother was unable to pay for my education. Therefore, my education at high school and university were through Jesuit institutions. I became very close to Jesuits. I felt that having lived a life where I know how difficult it is to suffer, I should do something to help. 

So when I graduated, I decided to apply for a job at the JCTR. First I got an internship, which I did for six months. Then I was told there was no vacancy. I had to go back home and I waited for another year. Then they called me. So for me, I think there are two reasons. First, it’s a way of giving back to the Jesuits for being so supportive of my education. Secondly, I have lived in a refugee camp, and I’ve lived in this position that allowed me to understand how it feels to go with no food and to be less privileged. I thought I should help others with the life I live.

That’s beautiful. Thank you for sharing. Has working at JCTR impacted your faith or faith development at all?

Yes it has, in the sense that most of our work involves the Church social teachings. Whatever we do at the JCTR, we ask ourselves: What would Christ do if he were in my shoes? We want the best for humanity and we want the best for the world. We want the best for the environment; everything that we do is for the betterment of humankind. In a way, it has impacted my faith because I see good in everything. Most times we don’t do things for our own good but for the good of the kingdom [of God].

Thank you, again, for sharing that. To step back to more of the basics, I was wondering: What is your official job title and is there anything specific about being located outside of Lusaka?

I’m the program officer. When I joined JCTR, initially I wasn’t even based in Kitwe. I was in Solwezi, up north. It’s what we are calling the “new Copperbelt” in Zambia; it’s a town that has the new mines that are running our economy. The JCTR did a basic study of the Solwezi communities in 2014. We observed that the communities and local people were not benefiting in any way from the province's mining activities. Thus, JCTR decided to set up an office and try to advocate for those communities. We attempted to create platforms for engagement between the government which is in charge of distributing taxes, the mining corporations, traditional leaders, and communities. We worked in Solwezi from 2014 to 2017.

When this project came to an end, we were starting a new project in another Copperbelt district called Lufwanyama District. Even there they are mining emeralds and other gemstones. We also did a study and found that these communities, again, are not benefiting in any way from the mining activities. Thus, we decided to go to Lufwanyama. I’m working on a project called “Public Investments in Children.” I wouldn’t say there’s any special reason why I’m based in Kitwe, but I think there’s work to be done and someone needs to be here to do it.

You talked about different programs you’re involved with and their focuses. What does your day-to-day job entail?

First of all, my responsibility is to run the JCTR activities in the Copperbelt and the northwestern province. My day-to-day job requires me to advocate for public investment in children in the Copperbelt and the northwestern province. I’m engaged in creating platforms for communities and reviewing policies to engage policymakers; I also engage the local authorities, state players, the churches, traditional leaders, and civil society organizations to see how we can best help our communities. So our work is basically advocacy and research.

My understanding is that here in Kitwe you’re more involved in the Social and Economic Development program. Can you tell me more about this programming?

Basically, I’m doing two programs. One program is called “natural resource governance.” This project intends to ensure that the natural resources of Zambia are used prudently with a culture of accountability and transparency. We engage the government on the national budget and on a number of issues that relate to public resources and funds. We also train communities and tell communities to make budget submissions. We tell communities about social audits and social accountability, so they get to know the social audit tools. Now, some of our communities can actually walk into a government office and request a social audit. That’s what we wanted. It’s capacity building for communities to be able to stand up for themselves and demand accountability and transparency.

In northwestern province we also engage the mines in corporate social responsibility. It’s not law to do corporate social responsibility [in Zambia]; some companies do [engage in corporate social responsibility] out of good will. We try to bring the mines, communities, and local authorities to the table. Because we’ve been in communities, we know what’s happening. So we tell them: “Look at what these people are going through. You have been mining here and you are making a lot of money. Please build them a school or build them a clinic. Give them some clean running water.” Some of these things have been done, so basically it’s capacity and sensitization.

Another project is public investment in children. Under this project—this one is run here, in Kitwe—we try to see if there’s sufficient investment in children in terms of school infrastructure, health facilities, and social protection. We’ve done a number of studies, and our studies show that the investment is not sufficient. We’re trying to engage the government and civil society to see how we can best improve public investment in children through the national budget and other channels. JCTR feels that we should uplift the living standards of children because they’re the future of Zambia.

Absolutely. You talked about capacity building, sensitization, and advocacy. When you are doing these two programs, how do you go about accomplishing this?

There are a number of ways. We have workshops; we create a platform where all the players in the community—government, traditional leaders, local authorities, and civil society organizations—can sit and talk. We also do radio programs. For example, we may go on the radio and invite three people: one from government, one from the mines, and one from the communities. We also release press statements on issues affecting children.

Could you describe any particular strengths of the programs and your work at JCTR?

One of the strengths is that JCTR has been in existence for quite some time. Another strength that distinguishes JCTR from other members of civil society is that we don’t take a partisan stance. We’ve always been neutral. We’ve always criticized the government or even the opposition when we feel that what they’re doing is not for the good of the people. We’ve always applauded them when we feel that what they’re doing is right. So one of our strengths is that we don’t politicize things. We talk about things as they are. We have been able to withstand different political environments. 

Our strength is that I think we have integrity. We do our research and we don’t speculate in our work. Another strength is that we have good working relationships with all of our partners: state players, non-state players, and donors. We are also accountable as an institution that has never experienced any mismanagement of donor resources. Our strength is our integrity. This integrity stems from basing our work in Church social teachings. It would be very disappointing for us to tell government, “Can you be accountable to people? Public resources are not being used prudently,” but then misuse our resources. It’s good to walk the talk.

On the other hand, could you describe some areas of improvement for the different programs?

For the program in northwestern province that has been running for some time now, I think there have been a number of improvements. For example, last week we set up a meeting with the donors and the mines. The mines said that before JCTR came to the area, the relationship between the mining corporations and civil society was hostile. The mining corporations thought that civil society was attacking them. Over time,  we helped the mining corporations realize that JCTR isn't in northwestern province to fight them. We are here to understand and find common ground. The mining corporations now say that our relationship is of mutual respect. There’s been a lot of cooperation and a lot of understanding. Now people can sit together and dialogue. Communities gather with the mines; this was something that was unheard of in the past five years.

Also, due to these platforms which have allowed people to understand each other and realize the problem on the ground, a number of communities now have running water. They have boreholes. A number of schools have been built. Some health centers are coming up. There’s also a program of women’s empowerment program where women are put in groups and they’re told: “What’s your interest? If it’s agriculture, you can start doing agricultural things, including vegetables and chicken rearing.” The mines have got a guesthouse and a hotel, so they buy a lot of those products from the women. The youths are being put into skill development by the mines. I think these are some of the fruits that we can proudly say we have achieved so far.

For the program here [in Kitwe], we only started last year so I would be beating our drum if I said we had changed so much. The only thing we’ve achieved so far is that we’ve managed to create a relationship between the mines and the local state players. As the work progresses, I think we’ll see some changes.

Could you describe any particular challenges you have faced with programming?

One of them would be a cultural thing. In African culture there’s this thing, especially in the rural areas, where a woman’s place is in the kitchen. So it’s difficult for me to call a meeting and convince the men that they need to empower these women. In our African context, there is a feeling that the men should provide for the family. Especially for our less privileged people, they think that the woman will start competing with the husband. Even when we talk about this issue of empowering women, some sections of our rural societies do not take it lightly, and so that’s one of the challenges.

The other challenge is the issue of public investments in children. We are trying to encourage children to go to school. However, those parents would prefer that their female children would get married. That’s another challenge. This child has a future. She should probably become a program officer when I’m gone. These are some of the challenges and the cultural things. 

You cannot question a traditional leader in Africa. The traditional leaders have more power than the president. So sometimes the mining things will go through the traditional leader. Corruption is very rampant in our country, and they don’t do any social investment in their communities. When you go to the mines, they will tell you the money goes to the traditional leader. You cannot call a meeting and question a traditional leader. It’s a taboo. It’s unheard of. You’ll be chased off from that community. Those are some of the challenges we face.

Another challenge is sometimes you make a statement when you feel the government hasn’t done the right thing, and they accuse you of being an opposition [supporter]. If the government has done something good for the country and you applaud that, then the opposition will accuse you of being a government supporter. Those are the challenges we try to fight with.

What are your long-term goals for the program?

I think I would want to leave at a point where I’ve left the community better than I’ve found it. I hope to see a number of schools have been built or even the ones in existence expanded. I hope to see that health facilities are improved and there’s clean water and the empowerment of women and children in the community at large. We have done a baseline study before we started, and we do an end-of-year report so we compare the two. Like I said, we are doing these things for the betterment of humankind. From my point of view, I think I would love to see the two provinces, not just the Copperbelt, and communities I’m working with, in better condition than we found them.

Is there anything you would like to say that you feel you haven’t had the chance to say yet?

I would love to see the African youth—our generation—have the same spirit that the people who fought for independence had. A few of our forefathers had this vision to try and see Africa at a certain point. What happened in the eighties, nineties, seventies, was that most of those leaders were overthrown by coup d’état and military rulers. Most of them were killed. I think the dream they had, if it were alive today, would have been different for Africa. The kind of leadership we had from the military rulers that ruled Africa in the eighties and the nineties didn’t do anything for Africa. The ones that came up—the democrats we have now—are not doing anything for Africa. They are doing something for themselves. Now the challenges have been that the generation that has risen from the eighties and the nineties up until now is our generation. Most people have not taken interest in the dream of the forefathers. These people are gone and they’ll never come back.

I see that, as Africans, we need to take interest and just try to see how we can better Africa. It’s heartbreaking to see what’s happening on this continent. My thoughts, even as you go and do your publications, are just to encourage African youth to be involved. I think they have been overtaken by Manchester, Chelsea, and these other football teams—those are of more interest than what’s on the ground. Our women are into South American TV novellas [and] are not worried with the kind of generation we will leave behind. I don’t know what our children will tell us when they grow up and they find this. They will probably think we were not serious.

So we need to think how to develop Africa. What Africa do we want to see as we go? Our time is running out; I’m 32 years old now. In Africa, if you reach 62 years old you’ve obtained your life expectancy. I think in the remaining 10 years we should try and do something for Africa. We can’t keep jumping on banana boats to France and go to Europe and America. We can’t do that. What happens to Africa if we all want to run? Everyone is running away from Africa. But we can’t all run. We need to stay here. We need to make this place where we are running to.

However, we’ve had very bad leaders and it can’t happen. There’s too much corruption, but people don’t understand that. People have reached the point in Africa where they’ve lost interest because of so much corruption and people stealing. For now I foresee people are not doing a coup d’état. Instead, they’re doing change of constitutions to stay in office. Every African leader wants to go for a third term. You’ve been here for two terms, what do you want to do that you haven’t done? People are now saying there’s no point in voting and that everyone is the same. But I don’t think everyone is the same. We need to make a change. That’s the capacity we’re trying to build. I think the issue of targeting children is important. Probably the generation that will come after us will be the generation that [makes the change].