A Discussion with Natalie Khoury, Academic Officer at the Jesuit Refugee Service Higher Education Center, Amman, Jordan
With: Natalie Khoury Berkley Center Profile
June 8, 2016
Background: As a part of the Education and Social Justice Project, in June 2016 student Jonathan Thrall interviewed Natalie Khoury, the academic officer for the Jesuit Refugee Service (JRS) in Amman, Jordan. In this interview, conducted at the JRS Higher Education Center, Khoury discusses her broad responsibilities and personal commitments at the center, the specificities of teaching in a highly diverse student body, and the importance and meaning of fostering community—as well as the difficulty of promoting social justice—in an urban refugee context.
Could you please introduce yourself?
I’m Natalie Khoury, academic officer [at JRS Higher Education], which basically means I’m responsible for implementing, coordinating, and the running of anything educational we have here. So [JC:HEM Community Service Learning Tracks {CSLTs}], of which we have two branches, psycho-social case management and English language classes, [the latter of] which we have three levels: beginners, pre-intermediate, and intermediate. And the other branch of education is the online [JC:HEM] diploma in liberal studies [accredited through] Regis University.
[So I’m in charge of] coordinating, implementing, which goes right from the outset of, if you want to take it from A to Z, doing the entry exams, which is normally over two days, and we have an exam every hour and over 350 people, some—that’s for the English language classes—of which we only take 75, formally, that come three times a week.
And then these English students are divided into three different levels?
Yeah, 25, 25, 25. Then we have—oh, so before that also creating the exam. Me and the team, we’ll create an exam that’s listening, reading, and grammar. The implementation of the exams itself is over two days. Marking the exams, putting the information into the computer systems, all of that, then leveling the students, taking the 75, contacting the students, doing the timetables, making a timetable that fits all the three levels. And then all of that’s the same for the diploma exam. So taking in the applications, evaluating those that are suitable for the entrance exam, marking that, sending off essays...administration and implementation of all of that kind of stuff.
Everyone must sit the English placement exam together, even students that have already done a class?
Exactly, to make it all fair. It’s not a question of, "Oh, I did beginner’s, so I can go into pre-intermediate," because some people didn’t work hard, so they won’t get into the next level. [But also] there’s a problem with our curriculum; basically, [there’s a gap] between beginner’s and pre-intermediate, which is being solved. We have a new CSLT online curriculum, which is not online for students; it’s online for the teacher. But she uses it as a tool basically, as a weekly structured guide. They’ve taken YouTube clips, and it’s been designed in relation to a book. So students get a book, and the teacher uses the Blackboard [virtual learning platform] as a tool to teach the student. So the progression and the scaffold learning from an educational perspective is a lot better. Essentially we should be able to have students that come in from elementary and should be able to go up to intermediate above, to then go into the diploma if they so wish. And that was supposed to be implemented this time around [June], but they’ve delayed it 'til August. I’m waiting because I need to train the teachers on it.
As academic officer, you are also in charge of training the English teachers?
You need teacher workshops and not just expect teachers to know, because they’re just depending on whatever educational background they’ve had, which here in Jordan is [not usually centered around] engaging people with audio-visual [tools], which is so important. Basically you’re constantly giving the same information [through different means], whether it’s on a YouTube clip, whether it’s kinesthetically and they’re moving something around, whether it’s just audio, whether it’s visual, right? To try and reach as many students, to try to move their learning forward, to the next level. Maybe because I’m a language learner, you know? I’ve learned two languages, and maybe I have a different empathy with the students [and realize the importance of combining these different methods]. But, really, if you don’t have those in place, students don’t move from a lower level to a higher level; it doesn’t happen.
So the new CSLT curriculum will be implemented at the same time at all JC:HEM sites?
Exactly, which is much better, because basically you’re able to monitor, and your assessment is a lot more effective. Although, of course, the implementation of it within a classroom—how the teacher delivers it and how the teacher assesses her students, have they got it, have they not got it—all of that plays a huge factor. But you’re eliminating a lot of other factors if you have one consistent curriculum that’s based on scaffold learning, that builds up on each other, right? So that in of itself is a really good step forward for JRS and the English language courses on a whole, to be honest.
Will having access to assessments from other JRS centers benefit you for conducting your own internal assessments?
It would be really interesting, of course. As you know, I’m thinking of going to Malawi or Kenya to see how other [JRS-JC:HEM] centers run. But I have to remember that the other [centers], they’re camps; we’re urban. It’s just there’s a number of factors that seem to affect [implementation]. Also, I’m always very context-driven. So, for example, I’m always quite lenient with my diploma students, because I know they do 12-hour shifts. Or I’ve got my student that’s in Salt [a city northwest of Amman], for example, who goes one and half hours [to come here and] who brought her baby last week. Like, you’ve got to throw her a bone, it’s not—so I’d be like, "Yeah, you can do the exams at home," because she can’t [come here easily]. She’s come [only] once by herself without a male. Whereas when you’re in a camp, you just walk to the center, right? I feel like it’s a bit different. Not that the camps don’t have challenges in themselves! I’m not saying they’re any easier, but different.
Could you tell me about your background?
Sure, so basically I [received an undergraduate] degree in Middle Eastern studies. Then I got a teaching qualification, just an English language one, a CELTA [certificate in teaching English to speakers of other languages]. That was in the United Kingdom. And then I taught English in Spain for two and a half years. Then I went to London and did my teacher training to become a primary school teacher, which is called PGCE [{postgraduate certificate in education} and consists of a] more in-depth scaffold learning curriculum. I taught in a primary school for a year, or two terms. I didn’t like being a primary school teacher, so I went to Saudi Arabia, taught there for two years, working at university. So I was teaching PYP [preparatory year program] courses, prep courses for Saudi female students who were going to do their degrees in English. And then I came here.
So I kind of do the same thing with the diploma students, who are second language learners [as I did with the Saudi students]. So I know these secret ways of trying to make it easier for them, basically. Which is why I would also say the course is more like blended learning. If you were to just let get the students get on with it, it wouldn’t function. Because our students themselves, if you would look at the background of the student in terms of education, some of them don’t even have tawjihi [high school completion exam]. So they haven’t got any study skills. Like, to read a paragraph and summarize it, they start panicking over every single word. And look at the overall meaning of the sentence, or what’s reading first time and [then reading a second time]. Yeah, there’s lots of little tricks, you know? Or how to structure a paragraph, or how to do an essay...even with the simplest things.
How does teaching at JRS Higher Education compare to your previous experiences?
So my background is teaching languages, [which] helps me empathize with the students and helps me know where their weaknesses lie as second language learners. Then, my primary school training and teaching enables me to look at the courses and see how they build upon each other, in terms of knowledge and how they link. Because students cannot always see those links, and I have to make those for them—or even the links within the course, within the week itself. Again, because they haven’t got a strong educational background; they haven’t got that skill set. And then my time in Saudi Arabia helps me design the prep course, which we do here for the students to lead them up [to the diploma], and [to teach them] how to break down academic texts, and [equip them for] lifelong learning, to hand the learning over to them.
How did you come to work at JRS Higher Education?
When I first came to Jordan, I came to [study] Arabic [and] volunteered at a center for disabled adults. And then, in January 2015, I saw a job advertised part-time. So I applied to be an English language teacher, [and] I got the job. And then the diploma tutor was leaving, so I took over her position. And then from that, [there were] various different shifts and changes within JRS-JC:HEM organization, and in January [2016] I became academic officer, so I took over more responsibility. I took on not just the diploma, I took on CSLTs [as well].
What is it like to have experienced the center working from different positions?
I think you can’t really run a system—run the show, as my mom would say—unless [you] have started out from the bottom. Because I know what the teachers are doing, and I know what they are going through. For it to work as a center, that’s quite key. [This way, I know] the system inside out, right? So now, if I ask anybody to do anything, I know exactly what the task involves, because I’ve done it myself. That’s just the most logical thing. You got your team, and you know exactly what’s going on. There’s loads of internal, little details that you don’t know unless you’ve done it. You actually need someone who’s studied education, because otherwise it doesn’t work, to be honest.
How do your students’ experience compare to that of students you have taught before?
Hugely! Any person’s education background will impact how they receive information that’s put in front of them. So for example, when I’m in my classroom, and [a student is] like, "I’ve got a degree," I know immediately; he doesn’t have to tell me. Because I can see from the way he engages, the way he studies, the ways he takes notes, the ways he writes a sentence, that he studied previously.
Those who haven’t studied don’t really have the study skill set: the ability to read a paragraph and summarize it, what’s the general idea of the text, presentation skills. They don’t always have them, right? So, really, whoever you’re teaching, I mean across the world, depends on what previous learning that they’ve had. So if you’ve ever only known rote learning, that’s how you’re going to engage wherever, whatever education gets put in front of you. They’ve come from such a rich and diverse background, all of the students. It’s not, like, consistently I’m dealing with people that have been taught rote learning.
How does the center implement the diploma program?
So the diploma’s not in my hands as much, obviously. The diploma is the eight week courses, and they get presented online, so it’s done for you. So as a teacher, I’m not doing curricular design. The students open it up week by week, and then it’s my job essentially to [enable the scaffold learning]. That is, to make clear the links between those eight weeks, how they connect, because they don’t always make those links—and not only between the weeks, but sometimes within the week itself. Because some students tend to want to jump to the last task, but they don’t understand that the tasks that they’ve been given, they discuss, reflect, build them up to [the final assignment,] the "Big Write." You can’t just do the big write because it’s the most points, you’ve had to have written, done the discussion, the reflection, that enable you to do it. So not all of them get that all of the time.
So even though the diploma is online, you facilitate onsite classes?
We do have set times. Normally, it’s twice a week for two and a half hours. And we mostly go through readings, because readings are extremely difficult; the level is really academic. And I do various different strategies of reading the text beforehand myself, picking out some vocab, and then key questions. So I’m still leaving the learning up to them, but I’m just trying to get the key ideas out of the text. Then I look at the tasks that they have to do that week—discussion, reflection—because they’re not always written in the simplest way, and I put it into steps or into bullet points. So students read the paragraph like that, from the internet, and then I break it into digestible pieces for them to swallow, and then they’re able to produce [the assignments.] Otherwise it’s too hard.
So even after becoming academic officer, you’ve kept all of your previous responsibilities as diploma tutor?
Yes, exactly. I mean, they have brought in Jumana [Ayoub, one of the English teachers at the center] to be my wingman, although she’s only [started] in the last month or so. And basically I was [overseeing everything,] running the exams and CSLTs [as well as providing support for the diploma program].
Does the JC:HEM diploma program require that there be an onsite tutor doing everything you’re describing?
I think I do more than I should. With my students, I can’t just say, "Here is the text." It’s just too hard. I’d be failing in the field of education if I was just throwing the text at them. I can’t do that; I wouldn’t want to do it. You’re supposed to inspire and, you know, you want them to engage with the materials and re-use it and reapply it into the community, right? Because this is the idea, that it feeds back. You have to make sure that the initial learning part is done. You’re essentially kind of a role model.
And also the other part of my job is to promote this element of reflection, discussion, and collaborative learning in the classroom, right? Because if you get them to discuss and talk and present to the class, then the last bit of writing should be easy. But you can’t jump from just reading. It’s that collaborative element between the students that the tutor needs to promote. For me if there’s no collaborative discussion in the classroom, you’re not doing anything, mate. Just forget it...which is really difficult with online [learning].
Do diploma students have these class sessions all three years?
Unfortunately, because we were stretched, I couldn’t do everything [and we had to drop the classes for the third-year cohort]. And then they got split into two different classes [because of the third-year specializations]. There’s not enough time for me, because the materials I’m engaging with are not easy. There’s a lot of reading as well. I would have loved to have done it [for the third-years], but I just physically couldn’t, because the [second-years] needed so much support.
Will you be taking on the new incoming cohort of diploma students, too?
Jumana will be taking them on, so we’re going to be team-tagging it. My [second-year] cohort are going to be put into separate classes [for their third year] so I’m going to have double prep. And I’m only going to have one class with each, a three-hour window with each of them to do text and try to help them as much as I can. But that’s all I can do—that on top of organizing all the exams and admin. Then I’m hopefully having this new CSLT curriculum, which I’m excited to implement.
How does having a center with such a diverse student body impact your work?
The diversity of the students basically has an impact on collaborative learning in the classroom. Because you’re dealing with [at least] five different nationalities—which’ll be, like, Jordanian, Palestinian, Syrian, Iraqi, Somali, Sudanese—each bringing with them their own stereotype or concept or idea of the other, across all of those.
They come into the classroom, and it’s the only space, pretty much in the country or in this city, where all of those nationalities come together in one small space. Nowhere else. If I was to take my female Iraqi students on the streets and there would be some Somali guys, they would never have a conversation. That would never take place. So that’s one important thing to remember, that this is the only social space—with the objective of education, that’s what brings everybody together—where it happens. And each has this stereotype of the other, so you’re trying to break those stereotypes for them in order for them to do collaborative learning, for them to be able to produce that written piece of work at the end of the week. And also to learn from each other and to break those ideas of stereotypes.
[The diploma program includes a] bridge to learning course, [and] the course content really helps break down the boundaries between the students to enable collaborative learning. Because collaborative learning is based on discussion and sharing ideas and brainstorming. So if I can’t verbalize and speak to the person next to me, or present to the whole class, collaborative learning does not happen. So in terms of diversity, creating links between the students, it’s key. It does not work otherwise.
This has been in our focus; we’ve really focused on it. I don’t know how it got implemented beforehand, but as somebody [who] previously taught in quite monocultural [settings,] when you come into this setting and the different hardships and the backgrounds that people have and I started teaching, I was, like, "What’s going on in my classroom?" So at the beginning of the course you have to do team-building. Every single day you’ll do a small team-building activity to break those boundaries. And it has to be consistent for the first couple of months, because people are not willing to. On top of that, you’ve got the gender issue, [with some] cultures being a bit more open to males sitting next to females or working with females. So that impacts how I then structure my classroom as to collaboration.
How does the center’s urban context, rather than being based in a refugee camp like other JC:HEM centers, impact your work?
With the urban [context,] basically you have to be, I feel, a lot more sympathetic with the students. Because it’s hard. Like I’ve said to you, I know two of my students, for example, who do 12-hour shifts six days a week. So, you know, I can’t be on top of them and be like, "Why haven’t you done your work?" Because they’re like, "We’re exhausted." So what I do, which is why my lessons are so important, is to try and make it as easy as I can for them. Because my job is to facilitate that. I’ve got another female student who’s in Salt—she did the prep course when she was pregnant, then she had the baby. Other students who’ve traveled [on from Jordan], they were like, "Khalas [I’m done]. I’m going to go." It’s just—the pressures, the urban pressures that are upon students to survive, right? And the fact that they come after a 12-hour shift, they’ll come to my class. Or they’ll be working 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. and then come straight here. You know a lot of them could be in really bad moods, so you’re trying to have to constantly uplift them, you know? And it is nice. They’ll all really come in and be like, "Nat!" and I’ll always try to make them laugh.
I’ve changed my timetable now so I’m freer, more free between 4:00 p.m. 'til 6:00 p.m., because that’s when they’ll come in, because I need to give them five minutes each. They need to know that somebody cares, basically. Because before I was like, "I’m too busy; I need to prep." But I needed to change it because that’s my duty towards them. Because some people feel—they feel this is their only secure or safe place in the city, you know, where they can really relax. So, again, I mean, you’re providing education, but you’re providing, to an extent, a safety net for people. So this also, for me, to cut that short, and not have a coffee with somebody, is kind of criminal, in my role.
Beyond class time, I’ve heard there are also community activities?
Yes, like a book club, there’s informal classes. But the space is tight, to be honest. If you look at the timetable the space is used pretty much back to back. But I would love to do more. I did actually start by doing community events. We had some great events, but I got just so overwhelmed because I took on academic officer.
I feel bad, because I feel we don’t have enough. As things settle down a bit—because it’s Ramadan now and we just finished the intake for the diploma students—we’ll have a monthly community event which I’ll run. And we’ll have a weekly events, like movie nights. Next week we’ll have an iftar.
So despite your new commitments, you do still run this community programming?
Yeah, of course...I just haven’t had time! But those community events are key, because it impacts collaborative learning in the classroom. Even if it does not happen within the classroom, it’s about creating a space. The other important thing with the community events is we’re open almost from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., [but] the pre-intermediate won’t see the elementary students, the elementary students won’t see the intermediate students, and [the students from the three English levels] don’t know who the diploma students are, because we can never have them in the same space at the same time. So when I held community events, I invited everybody, because the space is just constantly turning people out, and there’s never just a space where they’re together in it at the same time.
I also used to have community leadership meetings on a Tuesday [with] updates on the center, what’s happening at the center. But then we didn’t have enough space to run the meeting—which was good because I was getting people to attend. But that’s something I want to work on in the future. But it’s a question of space.
Do you find community building central to your work?
Oh my God, you need to do it! Because otherwise people come in in these little isolated bubbles, get on the computer and type. That’s not the objective. Because this is such a fragmented society anyway—you’re never going to build understanding. For [the students] too, because they’re going to go to a different country hopefully when they get resettled, they need to understand and embrace the other, not fear it.
You mentioned resettlement. Through my interviews, it seems in general that Jordan, for students, is just a stopover to the next destination. What impact does that have on the center?
Well, you get a different flow of people moving in and out, obviously. It creates a certain level of anxiousness, I would say, for certain students. Because they want to be resettled, but they don’t know when. They face the struggles of working for 12 hours a day, or something happening to them, or just they want to get out. Because they don’t like the situation. They don’t have money here; they’re not living like they used to back home. So it creates a certain level of uneasiness. Yeah, uneasiness, because they’re not secure about their future anyway, right? But then it’s interesting because when they then do get news of getting resettled, they tend to panic and freak out, at the same time.
Does this anxiousness and uneasiness also arise when they see others getting resettled?
Yeah, of course, exactly. [Those others are] getting an interview or this or that and how did they not. It’s not competition, but it’s awareness of yourself and your situation and the fact that you might not get out, and everybody tries their hardest.
Yeah, this is not a long-term destination for anyone, to be honest. If you ask any of them, they’ll be, like, "No way."
So how does community building operate in this context where people are constantly shuffling in and out?
It’s kind of doing with the now. So this is kind of a concept that they don’t know when they’re going—nobody knows when they’re going. So you have to make best with your current [situation]. Yeah, people come and go, that’s the nature of life, and it’s very much the nature of being a refugee, but at the same time, they’re all refugees and they’re struggling, right? So that sense of community, long- or-short term, I know here for the guys it really is like a support system. You can’t be like, "Oh, in six months I’m going to go"—you might go crazy in those six months, because you don’t have a support system. So that’s in itself [important].
And then if you can change how they perceive the other and interact with the other, then when they go to the next place, the way they deal with other people and interact with other people will be different. [But] building a community for the long-term future, because of the nature of where we work and people coming and going all the time, that doesn’t work.
Also if you don’t have community building, you don’t get as much collaborative learning in the classroom, and the implementation of any education program is then very difficult. Education has an impact, and it has an impact even in the space of three or four months that people are part of the community, because they feel that they have somewhere to go. Even if it is for a short time.
Because they come as individuals, some of them. Or they might be the only male and responsible for the entire household. So they need a release; they need to have something else—which [can mean] coming here and hanging out with different people from different places.
And again it’s because there’s no social space outside of here where people mix. Like you’ll see the Sudanese community is with the Sudanese, Somalis with the Somali. You might get Sudanese and Somali mixing slightly, more so than [with] Jordanians. Syrians are pretty much with the Syrians; the Iraqis are pretty much with the Iraqis. And on top of that, then you have religious differences. You’ve got Muslim and you’ve got Christian. Then on top of that, you’ve got different sects of Christianity and different sects of Islam. So the whole thing gets even more complicated and fractured. So, actually, education is key for breaking all that down. Otherwise, they can’t just go to Canada and be like, "Well, you know, I’m an Iraqi Christian, and I’m only going to mix with Iraqi Christians because that’s all I knew in Jordan."
What are the greatest challenges in teaching and working at JC:HEM?
Space, which probably quite a lot of people have said—space, communication. Because we share this space, but we are not all of us inside of it at the same time. So as somebody who’s trying to coordinate staff and put timetables together and to communicate with Matt [Stevens,Jesuit Refugee Service Jordan country director], who’s in a completely different office...which is why I’m constantly on my phone, Whatsapp. And on top of that, JC:HEM are in America. See my point?
[And also on a personal level, another challenge is] balancing all my responsibilities and being available for [the students]. Now that I’ve changed my timetable it’s better to organize and manage myself when they’re not around so that when they do come I can engage. Because [otherwise] there’s no point...I don’t see why I would be in this position if I wasn’t available for them.
What would you do to improve the experience here?
Space. For example, I’ve already said to you, we have 350 apply for the English language classes; we can only take 75. If we had more space we could offer more classes [and more levels]. Not only that, but to have a separate space that’s—you know, it’s asking far too much, and we’d never get it, but a little social space with a sofa and the coffee. Because in the winter we don’t have [the terrace space] outside, we just have these two rooms...that’s it. Forget sitting outside—for four or five months out of the year, it’s [too cold]. It would be nice to have another space for libraries, promote reading more. That kind of stuff. But obviously, that’s a dream. Sometimes because there’s no space in [the office and welcome center] and I have a Skype meeting, so I have to sit in here [the storage room where this interview is being conducted].
[But it would be best to keep the center centralized as it is now] because then if you start having [multiple] education centers, like from my perspective of running everything academically, you’re going to stretch me. Here it’s all in one space. [And in general, increasing space is not an easy task.] If it’s done badly, you’re just reducing the quality of education. And if you’ve got computers, you need security, you need a receptionist, you need—it’s not as easy as we’ll just go somewhere and rent classrooms.
[Otherwise, as I’ve mentioned before,] more community events, which I’m going to work on. Now that I’m a bit freer because I have an assistant, that enables me to do that. Focus more on the community leadership, which we’re going to do, I believe, with this new cohort.
I think the diploma program itself is good. Obviously, there’s things [I would have designed differently], but overall I think it’s quite effective as a program, to be honest. I don’t think it needs massive improvement—not like more space or community events that enable collaborative learning. It would be great for the students to appreciate and notice that [the diploma program is] more blended, rather than just independent learning. But again, because it’s run in so many different sites and contexts and all the students are quite different, and their own study backgrounds, [fostering collaborative learning is an obviously difficult task].
How do you understand the importance of providing higher education for refugees when they can’t work?
[This question is] always a good one. I think you have to look at the point of why do you [offer] education to anybody. And do you educate to get knowledge, to move thoughts and learning forward, or are we simply in a culture of learning to gain a piece of paper to open a door? Which, you know, we are in that culture, I’m not going to lie to you. I’m from the West, and I studied a degree, and I will go and do a master’s degree. But [as] somebody who works in education, I’m into getting knowledge and into expanding minds.
And also in the context here, that concept of the other, stereotyping—the more exposure you have to other peoples and religions and societies, the more willing, I feel, [you become] to accept whoever’s in front of you. So I guess, education within itself—I mean this is a bit of a massive leap—but in terms of trying to promote world peace, if ever there was such a thing, [I think education is the best means to that goal]. I mean, expanding minds—it’s not just, "I did this, and I got a certificate." It’s, like, "I studied, and I was part of a global classroom, and then in class I had different classmates, and now I can collaborate with different people."
It is a really important factor, and we address it in the beginning of the program: Why educate anybody in the first place? And the point being, [given the option to] educate or not educate, of course educate! Don’t just let [these students] stay and sit, even if, because of the context, yeah, [someone who’s female and Somali here in Jordan] is never going to become manager of a bank. Forget it...female and Jordanian, it’s going to be tough. But you shouldn’t just [allow] that as a barrier. And the good thing is, they will eventually get resettled, so they will be able to use [what they learn] further down the line, if not immediately—the collaborative learning, the social skills. Even if the society here doesn’t give positions.
What does social justice mean to you?
Well, I mean, context, isn’t it? How do you define that? Obviously I’d be defining it from my Western perspective, which is not going to be the social justice ideally [perceived] in Jordan. Because I’ve come from a Western education background and articles that I read, everything I’m engaging with, are in English and from the West. So for example, it’s that Western ideal concept of human rights. Very nice. But is it ever implemented? I can tell you that it’s definitely not.
So social justice, I feel, is more of a concept rather than something that we see implemented effectively on the ground. But first of all is how you define it in the first place. And how you define it [will have an impact] on if you think it’s being implemented. So a Sudanese student may feel it’s implemented; I may not feel it’s being implemented.
But social justice [broadly speaking], being the idea of promoting equality and justice for the person, having their rights, etc. Which, when you look here [at the context in which these students live] it’s no more, as they say, than hibr ‘ala waraq [ink on paper], right? But by the students being part of the program, they are at the same time, to an extent, receiving their right to an education.
So do you find that the JRS Higher Education Center strives to implement some form of social justice?
Yeah, [the students are] getting their right to an education. Everyone should have that right. The nice thing about [this center] is they don’t ask students to have tawjihi. And I can tell you some of my most intelligent students don’t have tawjihi, but when you see their writing, the way they think...thank God there’s this opportunity. Because [they’re] worth more than just making coffee, or working in construction.
So, you know, from that element, [the center is in fact] promoting social justice and giving knowledge. But then when they leave the center, are they embedded in that? Do you see my point? So that can also create frustration. It’s not sustainable, not in this highly racist context. So you’re promoting and building [social justice], but literally the minute you leave this center—like I’m talking about outside the front gate, I’m talking about when my students leave the bus—do they feel [that justice]? No, they don’t.
It’s really interesting when we’re on the bus, and we’re laughing and joking, and all of a sudden the doors open to the bus, and I always just think it’s like they’re being spat out, wallah al-’azim [I swear to God]. I almost see how their body language and everything changes, becomes like this [rigid, stoic] as soon as [they exit]. And I’m [waving good-bye] and joking, and they become more—almost like they can’t play the role. When they’re in the street they have to be a bit more [in a state of] defense. That’s what I feel: definite defense.
On that note, could you tell me about the transportation that the center offers?
We’ve [supported students’ transportation needs] from the beginning. We offer taxi reimbursement, but the trouble is [we could not support all students, so we started running buses]. So it’s providing education and making it accessible—that’s what the transport does. It’s not eliminating anybody because of their [financial means or] their race or religion or background, which, by the way, affect employment. So if you look at the salary scales of where our different students are from, their different backgrounds, there’s a difference. So you need to make it accessible to all and equal to all. You know, because 30 [Jordanian dinar per month] for somebody is a hell of a lot to pay just to get there and back. You know [the students] won’t even spend that on food. Rent is extremely high. And they’ll be living in further, distant [neighborhoods], because the rent is cheaper. Also, safety’s been an element.
I’m Natalie Khoury, academic officer [at JRS Higher Education], which basically means I’m responsible for implementing, coordinating, and the running of anything educational we have here. So [JC:HEM Community Service Learning Tracks {CSLTs}], of which we have two branches, psycho-social case management and English language classes, [the latter of] which we have three levels: beginners, pre-intermediate, and intermediate. And the other branch of education is the online [JC:HEM] diploma in liberal studies [accredited through] Regis University.
[So I’m in charge of] coordinating, implementing, which goes right from the outset of, if you want to take it from A to Z, doing the entry exams, which is normally over two days, and we have an exam every hour and over 350 people, some—that’s for the English language classes—of which we only take 75, formally, that come three times a week.
And then these English students are divided into three different levels?
Yeah, 25, 25, 25. Then we have—oh, so before that also creating the exam. Me and the team, we’ll create an exam that’s listening, reading, and grammar. The implementation of the exams itself is over two days. Marking the exams, putting the information into the computer systems, all of that, then leveling the students, taking the 75, contacting the students, doing the timetables, making a timetable that fits all the three levels. And then all of that’s the same for the diploma exam. So taking in the applications, evaluating those that are suitable for the entrance exam, marking that, sending off essays...administration and implementation of all of that kind of stuff.
Everyone must sit the English placement exam together, even students that have already done a class?
Exactly, to make it all fair. It’s not a question of, "Oh, I did beginner’s, so I can go into pre-intermediate," because some people didn’t work hard, so they won’t get into the next level. [But also] there’s a problem with our curriculum; basically, [there’s a gap] between beginner’s and pre-intermediate, which is being solved. We have a new CSLT online curriculum, which is not online for students; it’s online for the teacher. But she uses it as a tool basically, as a weekly structured guide. They’ve taken YouTube clips, and it’s been designed in relation to a book. So students get a book, and the teacher uses the Blackboard [virtual learning platform] as a tool to teach the student. So the progression and the scaffold learning from an educational perspective is a lot better. Essentially we should be able to have students that come in from elementary and should be able to go up to intermediate above, to then go into the diploma if they so wish. And that was supposed to be implemented this time around [June], but they’ve delayed it 'til August. I’m waiting because I need to train the teachers on it.
As academic officer, you are also in charge of training the English teachers?
You need teacher workshops and not just expect teachers to know, because they’re just depending on whatever educational background they’ve had, which here in Jordan is [not usually centered around] engaging people with audio-visual [tools], which is so important. Basically you’re constantly giving the same information [through different means], whether it’s on a YouTube clip, whether it’s kinesthetically and they’re moving something around, whether it’s just audio, whether it’s visual, right? To try and reach as many students, to try to move their learning forward, to the next level. Maybe because I’m a language learner, you know? I’ve learned two languages, and maybe I have a different empathy with the students [and realize the importance of combining these different methods]. But, really, if you don’t have those in place, students don’t move from a lower level to a higher level; it doesn’t happen.
So the new CSLT curriculum will be implemented at the same time at all JC:HEM sites?
Exactly, which is much better, because basically you’re able to monitor, and your assessment is a lot more effective. Although, of course, the implementation of it within a classroom—how the teacher delivers it and how the teacher assesses her students, have they got it, have they not got it—all of that plays a huge factor. But you’re eliminating a lot of other factors if you have one consistent curriculum that’s based on scaffold learning, that builds up on each other, right? So that in of itself is a really good step forward for JRS and the English language courses on a whole, to be honest.
Will having access to assessments from other JRS centers benefit you for conducting your own internal assessments?
It would be really interesting, of course. As you know, I’m thinking of going to Malawi or Kenya to see how other [JRS-JC:HEM] centers run. But I have to remember that the other [centers], they’re camps; we’re urban. It’s just there’s a number of factors that seem to affect [implementation]. Also, I’m always very context-driven. So, for example, I’m always quite lenient with my diploma students, because I know they do 12-hour shifts. Or I’ve got my student that’s in Salt [a city northwest of Amman], for example, who goes one and half hours [to come here and] who brought her baby last week. Like, you’ve got to throw her a bone, it’s not—so I’d be like, "Yeah, you can do the exams at home," because she can’t [come here easily]. She’s come [only] once by herself without a male. Whereas when you’re in a camp, you just walk to the center, right? I feel like it’s a bit different. Not that the camps don’t have challenges in themselves! I’m not saying they’re any easier, but different.
Could you tell me about your background?
Sure, so basically I [received an undergraduate] degree in Middle Eastern studies. Then I got a teaching qualification, just an English language one, a CELTA [certificate in teaching English to speakers of other languages]. That was in the United Kingdom. And then I taught English in Spain for two and a half years. Then I went to London and did my teacher training to become a primary school teacher, which is called PGCE [{postgraduate certificate in education} and consists of a] more in-depth scaffold learning curriculum. I taught in a primary school for a year, or two terms. I didn’t like being a primary school teacher, so I went to Saudi Arabia, taught there for two years, working at university. So I was teaching PYP [preparatory year program] courses, prep courses for Saudi female students who were going to do their degrees in English. And then I came here.
So I kind of do the same thing with the diploma students, who are second language learners [as I did with the Saudi students]. So I know these secret ways of trying to make it easier for them, basically. Which is why I would also say the course is more like blended learning. If you were to just let get the students get on with it, it wouldn’t function. Because our students themselves, if you would look at the background of the student in terms of education, some of them don’t even have tawjihi [high school completion exam]. So they haven’t got any study skills. Like, to read a paragraph and summarize it, they start panicking over every single word. And look at the overall meaning of the sentence, or what’s reading first time and [then reading a second time]. Yeah, there’s lots of little tricks, you know? Or how to structure a paragraph, or how to do an essay...even with the simplest things.
How does teaching at JRS Higher Education compare to your previous experiences?
So my background is teaching languages, [which] helps me empathize with the students and helps me know where their weaknesses lie as second language learners. Then, my primary school training and teaching enables me to look at the courses and see how they build upon each other, in terms of knowledge and how they link. Because students cannot always see those links, and I have to make those for them—or even the links within the course, within the week itself. Again, because they haven’t got a strong educational background; they haven’t got that skill set. And then my time in Saudi Arabia helps me design the prep course, which we do here for the students to lead them up [to the diploma], and [to teach them] how to break down academic texts, and [equip them for] lifelong learning, to hand the learning over to them.
How did you come to work at JRS Higher Education?
When I first came to Jordan, I came to [study] Arabic [and] volunteered at a center for disabled adults. And then, in January 2015, I saw a job advertised part-time. So I applied to be an English language teacher, [and] I got the job. And then the diploma tutor was leaving, so I took over her position. And then from that, [there were] various different shifts and changes within JRS-JC:HEM organization, and in January [2016] I became academic officer, so I took over more responsibility. I took on not just the diploma, I took on CSLTs [as well].
What is it like to have experienced the center working from different positions?
I think you can’t really run a system—run the show, as my mom would say—unless [you] have started out from the bottom. Because I know what the teachers are doing, and I know what they are going through. For it to work as a center, that’s quite key. [This way, I know] the system inside out, right? So now, if I ask anybody to do anything, I know exactly what the task involves, because I’ve done it myself. That’s just the most logical thing. You got your team, and you know exactly what’s going on. There’s loads of internal, little details that you don’t know unless you’ve done it. You actually need someone who’s studied education, because otherwise it doesn’t work, to be honest.
How do your students’ experience compare to that of students you have taught before?
Hugely! Any person’s education background will impact how they receive information that’s put in front of them. So for example, when I’m in my classroom, and [a student is] like, "I’ve got a degree," I know immediately; he doesn’t have to tell me. Because I can see from the way he engages, the way he studies, the ways he takes notes, the ways he writes a sentence, that he studied previously.
Those who haven’t studied don’t really have the study skill set: the ability to read a paragraph and summarize it, what’s the general idea of the text, presentation skills. They don’t always have them, right? So, really, whoever you’re teaching, I mean across the world, depends on what previous learning that they’ve had. So if you’ve ever only known rote learning, that’s how you’re going to engage wherever, whatever education gets put in front of you. They’ve come from such a rich and diverse background, all of the students. It’s not, like, consistently I’m dealing with people that have been taught rote learning.
How does the center implement the diploma program?
So the diploma’s not in my hands as much, obviously. The diploma is the eight week courses, and they get presented online, so it’s done for you. So as a teacher, I’m not doing curricular design. The students open it up week by week, and then it’s my job essentially to [enable the scaffold learning]. That is, to make clear the links between those eight weeks, how they connect, because they don’t always make those links—and not only between the weeks, but sometimes within the week itself. Because some students tend to want to jump to the last task, but they don’t understand that the tasks that they’ve been given, they discuss, reflect, build them up to [the final assignment,] the "Big Write." You can’t just do the big write because it’s the most points, you’ve had to have written, done the discussion, the reflection, that enable you to do it. So not all of them get that all of the time.
So even though the diploma is online, you facilitate onsite classes?
We do have set times. Normally, it’s twice a week for two and a half hours. And we mostly go through readings, because readings are extremely difficult; the level is really academic. And I do various different strategies of reading the text beforehand myself, picking out some vocab, and then key questions. So I’m still leaving the learning up to them, but I’m just trying to get the key ideas out of the text. Then I look at the tasks that they have to do that week—discussion, reflection—because they’re not always written in the simplest way, and I put it into steps or into bullet points. So students read the paragraph like that, from the internet, and then I break it into digestible pieces for them to swallow, and then they’re able to produce [the assignments.] Otherwise it’s too hard.
So even after becoming academic officer, you’ve kept all of your previous responsibilities as diploma tutor?
Yes, exactly. I mean, they have brought in Jumana [Ayoub, one of the English teachers at the center] to be my wingman, although she’s only [started] in the last month or so. And basically I was [overseeing everything,] running the exams and CSLTs [as well as providing support for the diploma program].
Does the JC:HEM diploma program require that there be an onsite tutor doing everything you’re describing?
I think I do more than I should. With my students, I can’t just say, "Here is the text." It’s just too hard. I’d be failing in the field of education if I was just throwing the text at them. I can’t do that; I wouldn’t want to do it. You’re supposed to inspire and, you know, you want them to engage with the materials and re-use it and reapply it into the community, right? Because this is the idea, that it feeds back. You have to make sure that the initial learning part is done. You’re essentially kind of a role model.
And also the other part of my job is to promote this element of reflection, discussion, and collaborative learning in the classroom, right? Because if you get them to discuss and talk and present to the class, then the last bit of writing should be easy. But you can’t jump from just reading. It’s that collaborative element between the students that the tutor needs to promote. For me if there’s no collaborative discussion in the classroom, you’re not doing anything, mate. Just forget it...which is really difficult with online [learning].
Do diploma students have these class sessions all three years?
Unfortunately, because we were stretched, I couldn’t do everything [and we had to drop the classes for the third-year cohort]. And then they got split into two different classes [because of the third-year specializations]. There’s not enough time for me, because the materials I’m engaging with are not easy. There’s a lot of reading as well. I would have loved to have done it [for the third-years], but I just physically couldn’t, because the [second-years] needed so much support.
Will you be taking on the new incoming cohort of diploma students, too?
Jumana will be taking them on, so we’re going to be team-tagging it. My [second-year] cohort are going to be put into separate classes [for their third year] so I’m going to have double prep. And I’m only going to have one class with each, a three-hour window with each of them to do text and try to help them as much as I can. But that’s all I can do—that on top of organizing all the exams and admin. Then I’m hopefully having this new CSLT curriculum, which I’m excited to implement.
How does having a center with such a diverse student body impact your work?
The diversity of the students basically has an impact on collaborative learning in the classroom. Because you’re dealing with [at least] five different nationalities—which’ll be, like, Jordanian, Palestinian, Syrian, Iraqi, Somali, Sudanese—each bringing with them their own stereotype or concept or idea of the other, across all of those.
They come into the classroom, and it’s the only space, pretty much in the country or in this city, where all of those nationalities come together in one small space. Nowhere else. If I was to take my female Iraqi students on the streets and there would be some Somali guys, they would never have a conversation. That would never take place. So that’s one important thing to remember, that this is the only social space—with the objective of education, that’s what brings everybody together—where it happens. And each has this stereotype of the other, so you’re trying to break those stereotypes for them in order for them to do collaborative learning, for them to be able to produce that written piece of work at the end of the week. And also to learn from each other and to break those ideas of stereotypes.
[The diploma program includes a] bridge to learning course, [and] the course content really helps break down the boundaries between the students to enable collaborative learning. Because collaborative learning is based on discussion and sharing ideas and brainstorming. So if I can’t verbalize and speak to the person next to me, or present to the whole class, collaborative learning does not happen. So in terms of diversity, creating links between the students, it’s key. It does not work otherwise.
This has been in our focus; we’ve really focused on it. I don’t know how it got implemented beforehand, but as somebody [who] previously taught in quite monocultural [settings,] when you come into this setting and the different hardships and the backgrounds that people have and I started teaching, I was, like, "What’s going on in my classroom?" So at the beginning of the course you have to do team-building. Every single day you’ll do a small team-building activity to break those boundaries. And it has to be consistent for the first couple of months, because people are not willing to. On top of that, you’ve got the gender issue, [with some] cultures being a bit more open to males sitting next to females or working with females. So that impacts how I then structure my classroom as to collaboration.
How does the center’s urban context, rather than being based in a refugee camp like other JC:HEM centers, impact your work?
With the urban [context,] basically you have to be, I feel, a lot more sympathetic with the students. Because it’s hard. Like I’ve said to you, I know two of my students, for example, who do 12-hour shifts six days a week. So, you know, I can’t be on top of them and be like, "Why haven’t you done your work?" Because they’re like, "We’re exhausted." So what I do, which is why my lessons are so important, is to try and make it as easy as I can for them. Because my job is to facilitate that. I’ve got another female student who’s in Salt—she did the prep course when she was pregnant, then she had the baby. Other students who’ve traveled [on from Jordan], they were like, "Khalas [I’m done]. I’m going to go." It’s just—the pressures, the urban pressures that are upon students to survive, right? And the fact that they come after a 12-hour shift, they’ll come to my class. Or they’ll be working 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. and then come straight here. You know a lot of them could be in really bad moods, so you’re trying to have to constantly uplift them, you know? And it is nice. They’ll all really come in and be like, "Nat!" and I’ll always try to make them laugh.
I’ve changed my timetable now so I’m freer, more free between 4:00 p.m. 'til 6:00 p.m., because that’s when they’ll come in, because I need to give them five minutes each. They need to know that somebody cares, basically. Because before I was like, "I’m too busy; I need to prep." But I needed to change it because that’s my duty towards them. Because some people feel—they feel this is their only secure or safe place in the city, you know, where they can really relax. So, again, I mean, you’re providing education, but you’re providing, to an extent, a safety net for people. So this also, for me, to cut that short, and not have a coffee with somebody, is kind of criminal, in my role.
Beyond class time, I’ve heard there are also community activities?
Yes, like a book club, there’s informal classes. But the space is tight, to be honest. If you look at the timetable the space is used pretty much back to back. But I would love to do more. I did actually start by doing community events. We had some great events, but I got just so overwhelmed because I took on academic officer.
I feel bad, because I feel we don’t have enough. As things settle down a bit—because it’s Ramadan now and we just finished the intake for the diploma students—we’ll have a monthly community event which I’ll run. And we’ll have a weekly events, like movie nights. Next week we’ll have an iftar.
So despite your new commitments, you do still run this community programming?
Yeah, of course...I just haven’t had time! But those community events are key, because it impacts collaborative learning in the classroom. Even if it does not happen within the classroom, it’s about creating a space. The other important thing with the community events is we’re open almost from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., [but] the pre-intermediate won’t see the elementary students, the elementary students won’t see the intermediate students, and [the students from the three English levels] don’t know who the diploma students are, because we can never have them in the same space at the same time. So when I held community events, I invited everybody, because the space is just constantly turning people out, and there’s never just a space where they’re together in it at the same time.
I also used to have community leadership meetings on a Tuesday [with] updates on the center, what’s happening at the center. But then we didn’t have enough space to run the meeting—which was good because I was getting people to attend. But that’s something I want to work on in the future. But it’s a question of space.
Do you find community building central to your work?
Oh my God, you need to do it! Because otherwise people come in in these little isolated bubbles, get on the computer and type. That’s not the objective. Because this is such a fragmented society anyway—you’re never going to build understanding. For [the students] too, because they’re going to go to a different country hopefully when they get resettled, they need to understand and embrace the other, not fear it.
You mentioned resettlement. Through my interviews, it seems in general that Jordan, for students, is just a stopover to the next destination. What impact does that have on the center?
Well, you get a different flow of people moving in and out, obviously. It creates a certain level of anxiousness, I would say, for certain students. Because they want to be resettled, but they don’t know when. They face the struggles of working for 12 hours a day, or something happening to them, or just they want to get out. Because they don’t like the situation. They don’t have money here; they’re not living like they used to back home. So it creates a certain level of uneasiness. Yeah, uneasiness, because they’re not secure about their future anyway, right? But then it’s interesting because when they then do get news of getting resettled, they tend to panic and freak out, at the same time.
Does this anxiousness and uneasiness also arise when they see others getting resettled?
Yeah, of course, exactly. [Those others are] getting an interview or this or that and how did they not. It’s not competition, but it’s awareness of yourself and your situation and the fact that you might not get out, and everybody tries their hardest.
Yeah, this is not a long-term destination for anyone, to be honest. If you ask any of them, they’ll be, like, "No way."
So how does community building operate in this context where people are constantly shuffling in and out?
It’s kind of doing with the now. So this is kind of a concept that they don’t know when they’re going—nobody knows when they’re going. So you have to make best with your current [situation]. Yeah, people come and go, that’s the nature of life, and it’s very much the nature of being a refugee, but at the same time, they’re all refugees and they’re struggling, right? So that sense of community, long- or-short term, I know here for the guys it really is like a support system. You can’t be like, "Oh, in six months I’m going to go"—you might go crazy in those six months, because you don’t have a support system. So that’s in itself [important].
And then if you can change how they perceive the other and interact with the other, then when they go to the next place, the way they deal with other people and interact with other people will be different. [But] building a community for the long-term future, because of the nature of where we work and people coming and going all the time, that doesn’t work.
Also if you don’t have community building, you don’t get as much collaborative learning in the classroom, and the implementation of any education program is then very difficult. Education has an impact, and it has an impact even in the space of three or four months that people are part of the community, because they feel that they have somewhere to go. Even if it is for a short time.
Because they come as individuals, some of them. Or they might be the only male and responsible for the entire household. So they need a release; they need to have something else—which [can mean] coming here and hanging out with different people from different places.
And again it’s because there’s no social space outside of here where people mix. Like you’ll see the Sudanese community is with the Sudanese, Somalis with the Somali. You might get Sudanese and Somali mixing slightly, more so than [with] Jordanians. Syrians are pretty much with the Syrians; the Iraqis are pretty much with the Iraqis. And on top of that, then you have religious differences. You’ve got Muslim and you’ve got Christian. Then on top of that, you’ve got different sects of Christianity and different sects of Islam. So the whole thing gets even more complicated and fractured. So, actually, education is key for breaking all that down. Otherwise, they can’t just go to Canada and be like, "Well, you know, I’m an Iraqi Christian, and I’m only going to mix with Iraqi Christians because that’s all I knew in Jordan."
What are the greatest challenges in teaching and working at JC:HEM?
Space, which probably quite a lot of people have said—space, communication. Because we share this space, but we are not all of us inside of it at the same time. So as somebody who’s trying to coordinate staff and put timetables together and to communicate with Matt [Stevens,Jesuit Refugee Service Jordan country director], who’s in a completely different office...which is why I’m constantly on my phone, Whatsapp. And on top of that, JC:HEM are in America. See my point?
[And also on a personal level, another challenge is] balancing all my responsibilities and being available for [the students]. Now that I’ve changed my timetable it’s better to organize and manage myself when they’re not around so that when they do come I can engage. Because [otherwise] there’s no point...I don’t see why I would be in this position if I wasn’t available for them.
What would you do to improve the experience here?
Space. For example, I’ve already said to you, we have 350 apply for the English language classes; we can only take 75. If we had more space we could offer more classes [and more levels]. Not only that, but to have a separate space that’s—you know, it’s asking far too much, and we’d never get it, but a little social space with a sofa and the coffee. Because in the winter we don’t have [the terrace space] outside, we just have these two rooms...that’s it. Forget sitting outside—for four or five months out of the year, it’s [too cold]. It would be nice to have another space for libraries, promote reading more. That kind of stuff. But obviously, that’s a dream. Sometimes because there’s no space in [the office and welcome center] and I have a Skype meeting, so I have to sit in here [the storage room where this interview is being conducted].
[But it would be best to keep the center centralized as it is now] because then if you start having [multiple] education centers, like from my perspective of running everything academically, you’re going to stretch me. Here it’s all in one space. [And in general, increasing space is not an easy task.] If it’s done badly, you’re just reducing the quality of education. And if you’ve got computers, you need security, you need a receptionist, you need—it’s not as easy as we’ll just go somewhere and rent classrooms.
[Otherwise, as I’ve mentioned before,] more community events, which I’m going to work on. Now that I’m a bit freer because I have an assistant, that enables me to do that. Focus more on the community leadership, which we’re going to do, I believe, with this new cohort.
I think the diploma program itself is good. Obviously, there’s things [I would have designed differently], but overall I think it’s quite effective as a program, to be honest. I don’t think it needs massive improvement—not like more space or community events that enable collaborative learning. It would be great for the students to appreciate and notice that [the diploma program is] more blended, rather than just independent learning. But again, because it’s run in so many different sites and contexts and all the students are quite different, and their own study backgrounds, [fostering collaborative learning is an obviously difficult task].
How do you understand the importance of providing higher education for refugees when they can’t work?
[This question is] always a good one. I think you have to look at the point of why do you [offer] education to anybody. And do you educate to get knowledge, to move thoughts and learning forward, or are we simply in a culture of learning to gain a piece of paper to open a door? Which, you know, we are in that culture, I’m not going to lie to you. I’m from the West, and I studied a degree, and I will go and do a master’s degree. But [as] somebody who works in education, I’m into getting knowledge and into expanding minds.
And also in the context here, that concept of the other, stereotyping—the more exposure you have to other peoples and religions and societies, the more willing, I feel, [you become] to accept whoever’s in front of you. So I guess, education within itself—I mean this is a bit of a massive leap—but in terms of trying to promote world peace, if ever there was such a thing, [I think education is the best means to that goal]. I mean, expanding minds—it’s not just, "I did this, and I got a certificate." It’s, like, "I studied, and I was part of a global classroom, and then in class I had different classmates, and now I can collaborate with different people."
It is a really important factor, and we address it in the beginning of the program: Why educate anybody in the first place? And the point being, [given the option to] educate or not educate, of course educate! Don’t just let [these students] stay and sit, even if, because of the context, yeah, [someone who’s female and Somali here in Jordan] is never going to become manager of a bank. Forget it...female and Jordanian, it’s going to be tough. But you shouldn’t just [allow] that as a barrier. And the good thing is, they will eventually get resettled, so they will be able to use [what they learn] further down the line, if not immediately—the collaborative learning, the social skills. Even if the society here doesn’t give positions.
What does social justice mean to you?
Well, I mean, context, isn’t it? How do you define that? Obviously I’d be defining it from my Western perspective, which is not going to be the social justice ideally [perceived] in Jordan. Because I’ve come from a Western education background and articles that I read, everything I’m engaging with, are in English and from the West. So for example, it’s that Western ideal concept of human rights. Very nice. But is it ever implemented? I can tell you that it’s definitely not.
So social justice, I feel, is more of a concept rather than something that we see implemented effectively on the ground. But first of all is how you define it in the first place. And how you define it [will have an impact] on if you think it’s being implemented. So a Sudanese student may feel it’s implemented; I may not feel it’s being implemented.
But social justice [broadly speaking], being the idea of promoting equality and justice for the person, having their rights, etc. Which, when you look here [at the context in which these students live] it’s no more, as they say, than hibr ‘ala waraq [ink on paper], right? But by the students being part of the program, they are at the same time, to an extent, receiving their right to an education.
So do you find that the JRS Higher Education Center strives to implement some form of social justice?
Yeah, [the students are] getting their right to an education. Everyone should have that right. The nice thing about [this center] is they don’t ask students to have tawjihi. And I can tell you some of my most intelligent students don’t have tawjihi, but when you see their writing, the way they think...thank God there’s this opportunity. Because [they’re] worth more than just making coffee, or working in construction.
So, you know, from that element, [the center is in fact] promoting social justice and giving knowledge. But then when they leave the center, are they embedded in that? Do you see my point? So that can also create frustration. It’s not sustainable, not in this highly racist context. So you’re promoting and building [social justice], but literally the minute you leave this center—like I’m talking about outside the front gate, I’m talking about when my students leave the bus—do they feel [that justice]? No, they don’t.
It’s really interesting when we’re on the bus, and we’re laughing and joking, and all of a sudden the doors open to the bus, and I always just think it’s like they’re being spat out, wallah al-’azim [I swear to God]. I almost see how their body language and everything changes, becomes like this [rigid, stoic] as soon as [they exit]. And I’m [waving good-bye] and joking, and they become more—almost like they can’t play the role. When they’re in the street they have to be a bit more [in a state of] defense. That’s what I feel: definite defense.
On that note, could you tell me about the transportation that the center offers?
We’ve [supported students’ transportation needs] from the beginning. We offer taxi reimbursement, but the trouble is [we could not support all students, so we started running buses]. So it’s providing education and making it accessible—that’s what the transport does. It’s not eliminating anybody because of their [financial means or] their race or religion or background, which, by the way, affect employment. So if you look at the salary scales of where our different students are from, their different backgrounds, there’s a difference. So you need to make it accessible to all and equal to all. You know, because 30 [Jordanian dinar per month] for somebody is a hell of a lot to pay just to get there and back. You know [the students] won’t even spend that on food. Rent is extremely high. And they’ll be living in further, distant [neighborhoods], because the rent is cheaper. Also, safety’s been an element.
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