Berkley Center

Abdul-Malik Ryan: My brother somehow got his hand on a book of Malcolm X's speeches, and I then pick that up. The thing that stuck with me most was actually teaching some of the most esoteric and bizarre aspects of the Nation of Islam doctrine. But I was stunned by this, it was like nothing I had ever seen before, and I was fascinated by it. So, that set me on a path to feeling like I needed to know more about what this was. In a lot of ways, I feel like I've been on that journey with Malcolm X as a companion since that time in my life, and I keep coming back to that. So, when I went to college, I was like, "I need to find people that can help me know more about Islam." At DePaul we embrace religious diversity so much that I came here as a Catholic, converted to Islam, and not only were they okay with that, but they invited me back to be the Muslim chaplain and convert other kids to Islam.

Scott Alexander: You're talking to a Catholic who, one of his proudest moments is facilitating a Christian's conversion to Islam, so.

Abdul-Malik Ryan: That is very beautiful.

Scott Alexander: I taught a course Introduction to Islam, and I got an email from a student who was a Christian. I don't know whether she was Catholic or not, but she said, "I wanted to thank you, I became a Muslim with a capital M, basically about six months ago," and she said, "As I was thinking about being grateful to God for where God led me on my journey, I want to thank you because my journey to Islam all began in your class and in the beauty of the Islamic tradition that you, even as a non-Muslim introduced me to." And so even as I think about that, I get a little choked up.

But for me, that's the ultimate validation of what I try to do with my life as a Christian on this journey of trying to better understand and better love my Muslim sisters and brothers and their incredible tradition. Originally, I thought this is something that you don't share with most Catholic prelates, who would think, "What are you doing, being kind of an agent of people converting to Islam?" My response to that is, "Actually, I'm not an agent of anything. God is the agent of all these things." But to have played a small kind of role in someone getting that kind of clarity about where they needed to go in their relationship with God is just one of the deepest blessings that I have experienced in my life.

Abdul-Malik Ryan: I remember in iftar, at DePaul-

Scott Alexander: And iftar is a fast-breaking-

Abdul-Malik Ryan: Yes.

Scott Alexander: ...dinner during Ramadan-

Abdul-Malik Ryan: So, we were breaking that fast after fasting during the day of Ramadan. And we were just having a potluck, and it was 10 of us, and all 10 were people from different countries, people had different levels of observance. But for us to be together, to me, sitting on the floor eating like that with people from such diverse backgrounds in this ancient tradition was something that was new to me in my own background. So, I really remember a powerful feeling that, "These are my people. I found my people."

Scott Alexander: I know I'm a Catholic, and I know that that's very different than what Muslims believe and what the Quran teaches, but at the same time, my spirituality has probably been more influenced by Muslims, especially individual Muslims. One of the most important spiritual mentors and fathers and figures in my life is a man who I know you know, Ghulam Haider Aasi, he's a Muslim and yet no Catholic or Christian compares in my life to his influence on my spiritual growth and development. And whenever I have a question dealing with kind of issue that's really weighing on me and wanting to talk to someone who understands what it means to try to be a person of faith and try to address these issues in one's life, he's my go-to guy.