Berkley Center

Background: As a part of the Education and Social Justice Project, in May 2016 undergraduate student Jonathan Thrall interviewed Abdulaziz, a Sudanese computer technician and student learning English at the elementary level, following a curriculum designed and implemented at the Jesuit Refugee Service (JRS) in Jordan in partnership with Jesuit Commons: Higher Education at the Margins (JC:HEM). In this interview, conducted at the JRS Higher Education Center in Amman, Abdulaziz discusses the discrimination Sudanese refugees face in Jordan, the open and inclusive environment fostered by JRS, and his plan to pursue graduate studies in the West in order to serve his community back home in Darfur.

Could you introduce yourself? Feel free to talk about your educational background.

My name is Abdulaziz. I am 27 years old, and I am from Sudan, but I have been here in Jordan for one year and seven months. My family is not here with me in Jordan; they are still living in Sudan—more exactly, the Darfur region. I am married, just unfortunately my wife is not with me here; she is still in Sudan with my family. So I am here by myself, and I am a refugee here—the UNHCR has just now accepted me with a certificate for refugees.

I studied through university. I completed primary school for eight years in my village, then I passed the basic school exam, and I was accepted into secondary school. Secondary school in the Sudanese system is three years. After that I was selected for university: the Sudan University of Science and Technology. I studied physics in the Department of Science. I graduated in 2013. I’m really interested in physics, you know. I want do this in my future; it’s my plan. If I improve my [English] language here and if I am selected for resettlement in the United States or United Kingdom, I want to do my master’s degree in physics. Here in Jordan, before JRS, I used to study English in another center for...just for two months. I studied [at the] pre-intermediate level. This is the second center here in Jordan, JRS.

And what about your professional background? Did you work after graduating?

After I graduated from university, I was repairing computers. I am very interested in technology. My brother already had a computer center. He taught me how to repair computers and mobiles. I used to work with them for two years, but after that I decided that the life in Sudan was so bad, you know—you have war, the civil war. I cannot have a chance to work there. There are guys who kill some guys; some are arrested. The Sudanese government have a bad situation for the Darfurian [people]. You know, that’s the Darfur civil war. And then I decide, you know, to leave Sudan, to leave my work. I came here to register as a refugee. I hope to get—I search for a better life than in Sudan.

And what was it like when you arrived in Amman?

You are not allowed to work as a refugee here. I did find work here similar to my job [in Sudan] from one of the Jordanian guys, in a computer network center. I worked for them for just three months. After that, I left. That work was not good with me. They didn’t have good salary. I left that work.

So right now, I am not working. I am just waiting for my interview with UNHCR. I am just going to the English center to improve my language. Unfortunately, I don’t know what time it [the interview] will be. They just tell me I have to wait, and they will call me. [It could be] after a year or these [coming] days. Unfortunately, I don’t know. I am just waiting for it.

What are the main difficulties you face here?

The community in Jordan. As refugees, we are facing many different problems. The Sudanese refugees are especially suffering. Why? There is some discrimination. [Among] the Jordanians, there are no black guys. They just hate the black guys. They are not accepting [of] our community. This is why you are unable to work; even, you are illegal to work. If you are staying here in some areas they are hitting you with stones. [They say:] "You are black guy. You are like coffee." We are facing a lot of difficulties. We are different. This is why I am not able to work here. It’s really hard to tell you this is what is happening. This is why I am out of work, out of anything. Just...we are going to fill our time. To discuss with who wants to accept us, who wants to teach us, who wants to live with us, who wants to understand us—this is why we are here.

How did you come across JRS, and have things changed since you’ve come here?

I have my friend; they already started studying here. They told me they have the JRS Center. It’s available, it’s free for refugees, and if you are going to improve your language, you have to start with them. They are telling me that I can come and sit the first course here at the JRS Center. So, the JRS Center, it is open for the different guys. They have a good policy: they accept any guys; they do not have discrimination. They even have Jordanians here, Iraqis, Syrians, Somali, and Sudanese. This center, it gives a chance. It is a big opportunity for me. So I am enjoying JRS. I find myself to express my language. And the other people, you can expect them to communicate with us. So, this is a good opportunity for me to be here. The JRS, they have a good system to teach students and to improve communities here that come here.

And so how would you characterize the relations with the teachers and with the other students? What’s the dynamic here at the JRS Center?

I have not spent a lot of time here yet at JRS Center. But, if you are open with others, I mean the students, if you are open with other guys to talk with them and some of the times you spend time with them, they communicate with you. Just if you are closing yourself, they don’t communicate with you. It’s hard; I am full-time, and I am not working. Most of the students here—they are working. They have limited time to study, and they return back. But sometimes I can get the Sudanese and Somali stay here. I chat with them and spend time. It’s easy to communicate with someone who comes from Africa. Just...it’s difficult to communicate with the Arabs. But the teachers here at JRS Center, I think they are good. They have a good policy for everyone; they have good teaching, good behavior, they respect anyone. Inside the class, I sit next to other students, and if you need anything you can ask them or ask the teacher. There is good communication.

Is there anything you would do to improve your experience here at JC:HEM?

Yes, I prefer to finish my level here and then after that, I need to talk. To make many friends here and to discuss with them. And after that I want to apply for the diploma program. If I finish this course and then the pre-intermediate, then I want to apply for the diploma program here. This is why I go here.

Could we talk a little bit about your study habits? Do you study outside of class? How do you prepare for class?

If you are going to learn this language, you have to work hard. Always, if the teachers give me homework, when I return back at home, I take a rest, and then the first thing to do if I am sitting with my laptop is to memorize what I am learning, do my homework. And then if I finish my homework, I have time to work on other skills, listening, speaking, Skyping with my friends who speak English. Also reading some short story book, for the exercise; writers from the English community, sometimes American writers; and listening to the news. These are the other skills to do after homework. This is how I can improve my language for listening and to communicate with others. If you are going to learn the language, [you need to know] how they are living in the English community. You are going to know their culture and how they use their language in their jobs, their careers.

So since you’re not working, you’re spending that extra time to go further with English?

Yeah, yeah.

Then what, maybe, are the greatest challenges in your studies at JRS?

Actually, you know, as refugees, we have many challenges facing us. Just myself, right now, as I told you, I am not working. The life here in Jordan, if you are not working, it’s hard to live. UNHCR, they allow me in one month about $100. That is not enough for me. I use that to share with my friends for rent and paying for the food. And when I’m starting here at JRS, just for transportation—I am living away from the center, so one of the challenges is transportation. The money, the life,...it is a challenge.

How do you get to the center?

I take the bus [provided free of charge by JRS] and sometimes the taxi. In the mornings they have no bus so, if I come early, I take taxi.

What does “social justice” mean to you?

To respect other people, to respect the different communities, who are not from your own culture, to accept and even live with them. Social justice has a big place with me in my heart. And if you respect others, they are going to respect you. And how to communicate with them, and how to live with them. This is a good thing for me, to respect others. And even religion—you can find that in Islam, to respect.

And do you see social justice play a role in your studies or in the program?

Yeah, it’s one of the important things you can find at the JRS Center here, the social justice. First, when you come here, they give us the policy of the center. They say that we respect the whole world, and we are not going to discriminate against anyone, and we are going to teach you, and you will teach us. We are one family; we are one people. And we are going to make from different communities one community. We are going to graduate to make one multi-community, one community all together. This is the good thing they have.

You were talking about your studies back in Sudan and about your motivations. So what’s your biggest motivation in your studies? What do you hope to use your studies for?

So my motivation, as I’ve already told you, I used to study physics. It is a very hard subject. It was a bachelor’s degree—it’s not enough for me. So this is one of the things: if I am selected for resettlement in a Western country, I want to do a master’s degree in physics. After that, I am going to help my poor country, the Sudan, especially Darfur. They are still suffering...it is hard to describe that. They are still killing; they have a genocide in Darfur. I am going to help that community, I hope...I hope.

So you hope to use your studies to help your community back home?

Yeah, I am going to help my communities. In my plans [for] the future, I will make some centers for teaching things in my community there. And a health center. They are still suffering from [lack of] health care. Even from simple diseases they are dying there. They lose anything in their life. So when I finish, in my plans, I will do a master's in nuclear physics—but if not available for that, the second plan is medical physics; it’s good for me. Why? The medical physics, I can help, make the health centers for my community so that I can help them.

I talk with my friends, others—they have a lot of plans for our community also. We are going to share, to make some organization, and the world is going to help us. If you are graduated and helping your community, the world around you, they can help you. [We] are going to make some schools to teach the students. And the health center, for the poor people who are dying without anything. We are going to discuss our basic problems, what’s happening exactly, why the civil war still, we are going to teach our community.

You know, my family, my father and mother, they are not educated. Unfortunately, my father, he passed away 12 years ago. But my community, they need to be more educated. They are not educated fully. You know, you can find that almost half the people are not educated. They do not know the value of being educated. We are going to teach them the value of being educated, I hope. This is my plan for the future.

Is there anything you want to add that we have not talked about?

You know, I hope that God can give me more aid. To improve, or to accomplish my plan. This is what I hope: to accomplish my plan. Thank you for this opportunity, to talk with you, to give that, to express my future plan, and to express to you my situation here. I appreciate it.