A Discussion with Cecyl Esau of the Institute for Justice and Reconciliation on the Role of Religious Communities in South Africa in the Future
With: Cecyl Esau Berkley Center Profile
May 21, 2009
Background: As part of the Peacebuilding Practitioners Interview Series, Dr. Eric Patterson interviewed Cecyl Esau, a political activist with the Institute for Justice and Reconciliation. In this interview, Esau speaks to the importance of interfaith work in the reconciliation and transition periods in South Africa.
What was the role of religious actors in the transition/conflict?
Obviously this is an issue that has been written about significantly so I will be brief. The major political parties were banned in the 1960s and 1970s. This left a vacuum. This vacuum was partially filled by trade unions and partially by religious actors. Religious bodies played a critical role. Although some members were banned and restricted, they could operate in a way that political parties could not. They also had a strong prophetic role. They played an important role in changing mindsets and changing what the people thought. They showed people that apartheid was wrong and they took action—mainly peaceful action. Indeed, in 1985 the Christian church issued the Kairos document. This defined the role of the church sharply in opposition to apartheid. They organized marches, etc. The role of the church was such: they allowed their premises to be used, they protected activists; they rallied support; and the South African Council of Churches (SACC) established a support structure.
Do you feel like the transition in South Africa is over?
No. The transition will take a long time. The move from an oppressive context to a democracy will take a long time. Indeed, a lot of people who were involved in apartheid are very much part of the new society. The ideology that was pursued by various actors during apartheid, although more hidden is still there. An analogy from the Bible serves us well: you should not pour new wine into an old wine skin.
One needs to assess how one can make a clear break from the old era. And this is not just an era of apartheid, but a long period of colonization too. Although there is a break in terms of political system (new institutions have been formed, there is a new constitution, and there have been free and fair elections), these are just first steps. They are establishing stages. The ideologies and beliefs will take a long time to change. There is a very long way to go. One marker of when such a transition will be over is when we do not have the same exclusionary categories we always have—when these have no significance—such as race, color.
What is the impact of the religious communities on the consolidation of peace/democracy?
They were very much visible in the struggle versus the apartheid state. Like other organs of civil society since then they have been struggling to define their role. Previously their role was oppositional and mobilizing their constituencies against apartheid. They also played a prophetic role. Post-1994 they are grappling with what they should do in this new context. In the past there was a close connection between what the religious bodies were fighting for and the liberation movements. They thus had a strong relationship with the state. Post-1994 it is hard for them to distance themselves from the government. It is hard for them to separate out from the structures of the state and the political parties themselves. It is unclear what they should do and what is their own calling. They have tried in some ways to do independent things such as their work around the Millennium Project (such as the archbishop of the Western Cape who, with other civil society organizations, did much for this project), and projects with HIV/AIDS and poverty.
In South Africa now there has been a descent into a pursuit of material things. The religious communities must speak against this. They have also criticized the way that politics have been conducted—the so-called gutter politics that is prevalent in South Africa now.
Essentially they are grappling to define their role separate from the state and the political parties.
What is the relationship between religious actors and the state?
They have some interaction with the state and the presidency. There is also an annual meeting of religious leaders. In addition the SACC have had access to organs of the state. They worked a lot with the issues of xenophobia that happened last year. Moreover, they have a role in official activities such as the inauguration of the president. They bless the occasions.
What should the religious community's role be?
South Africa has high levels of poverty. The people feel helpless. Thirty to 40 percent of the populations live in poverty. The role of religious bodies should be concerned with the plight of the poor. The religious actors have substantial resources. These must be better used. They could act in conjunction with the state to augment programs which are concerned with alleviating the plight of the poor. They need solidarity with the poor people. We need to encourage a more caring society. They also need to promote values and norms. The country is too materialistic now. The country is obsessed now with displaying wealth. For example, the newspapers recently reported Jacob Zuma’s daughter’s birthday party cost 400,000 rand.
How can they do this?
They must promote understanding of scriptural documents. They must use their resources better. They must generalize their work. They need partnerships. There should be more solidarity with the people who are struggling and poor. They must mobilize some of their resources better and get people the services they need. They must also lobby the government to get people to address the problems of poverty and other issues such as these.
By working together do you mean interfaith work?
Yes. This is critical. The legacy from the anti-apartheid movement is that we must work together. This can achieve more. Thus work must be conducted across faiths. We must keep doing this. All people must collaborate.
Do religious actors have a great role to play in the future?
Yes. They have a huge significance. Much of their membership is the marginalized of society such as those most in need. So they are very well placed to do this.
Obviously this is an issue that has been written about significantly so I will be brief. The major political parties were banned in the 1960s and 1970s. This left a vacuum. This vacuum was partially filled by trade unions and partially by religious actors. Religious bodies played a critical role. Although some members were banned and restricted, they could operate in a way that political parties could not. They also had a strong prophetic role. They played an important role in changing mindsets and changing what the people thought. They showed people that apartheid was wrong and they took action—mainly peaceful action. Indeed, in 1985 the Christian church issued the Kairos document. This defined the role of the church sharply in opposition to apartheid. They organized marches, etc. The role of the church was such: they allowed their premises to be used, they protected activists; they rallied support; and the South African Council of Churches (SACC) established a support structure.
Do you feel like the transition in South Africa is over?
No. The transition will take a long time. The move from an oppressive context to a democracy will take a long time. Indeed, a lot of people who were involved in apartheid are very much part of the new society. The ideology that was pursued by various actors during apartheid, although more hidden is still there. An analogy from the Bible serves us well: you should not pour new wine into an old wine skin.
One needs to assess how one can make a clear break from the old era. And this is not just an era of apartheid, but a long period of colonization too. Although there is a break in terms of political system (new institutions have been formed, there is a new constitution, and there have been free and fair elections), these are just first steps. They are establishing stages. The ideologies and beliefs will take a long time to change. There is a very long way to go. One marker of when such a transition will be over is when we do not have the same exclusionary categories we always have—when these have no significance—such as race, color.
What is the impact of the religious communities on the consolidation of peace/democracy?
They were very much visible in the struggle versus the apartheid state. Like other organs of civil society since then they have been struggling to define their role. Previously their role was oppositional and mobilizing their constituencies against apartheid. They also played a prophetic role. Post-1994 they are grappling with what they should do in this new context. In the past there was a close connection between what the religious bodies were fighting for and the liberation movements. They thus had a strong relationship with the state. Post-1994 it is hard for them to distance themselves from the government. It is hard for them to separate out from the structures of the state and the political parties themselves. It is unclear what they should do and what is their own calling. They have tried in some ways to do independent things such as their work around the Millennium Project (such as the archbishop of the Western Cape who, with other civil society organizations, did much for this project), and projects with HIV/AIDS and poverty.
In South Africa now there has been a descent into a pursuit of material things. The religious communities must speak against this. They have also criticized the way that politics have been conducted—the so-called gutter politics that is prevalent in South Africa now.
Essentially they are grappling to define their role separate from the state and the political parties.
What is the relationship between religious actors and the state?
They have some interaction with the state and the presidency. There is also an annual meeting of religious leaders. In addition the SACC have had access to organs of the state. They worked a lot with the issues of xenophobia that happened last year. Moreover, they have a role in official activities such as the inauguration of the president. They bless the occasions.
What should the religious community's role be?
South Africa has high levels of poverty. The people feel helpless. Thirty to 40 percent of the populations live in poverty. The role of religious bodies should be concerned with the plight of the poor. The religious actors have substantial resources. These must be better used. They could act in conjunction with the state to augment programs which are concerned with alleviating the plight of the poor. They need solidarity with the poor people. We need to encourage a more caring society. They also need to promote values and norms. The country is too materialistic now. The country is obsessed now with displaying wealth. For example, the newspapers recently reported Jacob Zuma’s daughter’s birthday party cost 400,000 rand.
How can they do this?
They must promote understanding of scriptural documents. They must use their resources better. They must generalize their work. They need partnerships. There should be more solidarity with the people who are struggling and poor. They must mobilize some of their resources better and get people the services they need. They must also lobby the government to get people to address the problems of poverty and other issues such as these.
By working together do you mean interfaith work?
Yes. This is critical. The legacy from the anti-apartheid movement is that we must work together. This can achieve more. Thus work must be conducted across faiths. We must keep doing this. All people must collaborate.
Do religious actors have a great role to play in the future?
Yes. They have a huge significance. Much of their membership is the marginalized of society such as those most in need. So they are very well placed to do this.
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