A Discussion with Fadi, Student, Jesuit Refugee Services Higher Education Center, Amman, Jordan
With: Fadi Berkley Center Profile
June 5, 2016
Background: As a part of the Education and Social Justice Project, in June 2016 undergraduate student Jonathan Thrall interviewed Fadi, a software engineer and student learning English at the elementary level, following a curriculum designed and implemented at the Jesuit Refugee Service (JRS) in Jordan in partnership with Jesuit Commons: Higher Education at the Margins (JC:HEM). In this interview, conducted at the JRS Higher Education Center in Amman, Fadi discusses his appreciation of the stability and transparency in Jordan, the quality of teaching at JRS, and his hopes of pursuing his dreams in the United States.
Could you please introduce yourself?
My name is Fadi; I am 30. I studied software engineering in Iraq, Baghdad, [where I’m from]. I graduated in 2007, bachelor’s degree. After I graduated I worked in power plants projects in planning department for seven years, and after that I came to Amman, Jordan, one year and six months ago, in December 2014. When I came to Amman, Jordan, I submit refugee, and I want to travel to the United States and live there. I am here with my family: my father, mother, and one brother. He’s 28; he’s like me, software engineer.
What was your experience when you arrived in Amman?
The security situation is good in Amman. The electricity is good. You know, I talk about electricity because in Iraq it’s not good, it’s bad. Amman is like America in many things; I saw this. I saw in Amman respect for everyone. Baghdad now, it’s not—you know, I don’t want to enter the topic—I don’t like politics. But yes, in Amman there is freedom; I’ve seen this. What I saw here in Amman is a partnership that links the United States and Jordan, which I like. I see, for example, that Jordan is a state that has more forbearance in comparison to Iraq. And the relationship between the United States and Jordan is strong; with the United States and the European Union, that support is noticeable, present. I’ve seen positive things here as a result of that cooperation and partnership.
What were the first few months like in Amman? Were there challenges or difficulties?
There aren’t any difficulties. In Amman they speak the Arabic language. You’d have difficulties [if you did not speak the language. But] why do you not face difficulties in Amman? In Amman there is transparency, so there are no difficulties. And there is a law that is strong in Amman. This law imposes a good state of affairs. You know, if there is no law, everything...if there is law, there is freedom. You find respect, transparency.
I have friends; they live here before, in Amman. When they travel to United States and live there, they call me and said Amman is like a small America. As in, the person who lives in Iraq and lives in America—no big difference. In Amman, when you walk in the street, you see all nationalities. Same thing in America. That comes from freedom, from law, from transparency, and many good things.
How has life changed, then, since you’ve arrived?
When I was in Baghdad, I worked. Now, I can’t work because you know, in Jordan, Jordan has rules. Now I am refugee; I can’t work. I must respect the rules of Jordan. We, as refugees, do not know when we will travel, and the duration of our stay here has lengthened a lot. There are no appointments for resettlement, and all of the interviews with the UN have stopped. And this thing worries us a lot, because we are without work and we are not allowed to work, and the costs of living here are very expensive, with apartment rent, electricity, etc.
How did you find out about JRS?
I heard about JRS from my friends and Facebook.
What did your friends say about JRS?
They said JRS has a great courses in English. And they told me if I come here I will improve my English. Because, you know, I did not have enough practice, so I need to practice my English language.
Tell me about the class. What are your experiences in learning English here?
I like the class, and I like also Miss Asala; she’s smart. And also I like the book, and I think this book, the people that put it together are experts, the result of years of work. If you flip through it—they are specialists in the language. The work of many years, the result of a lot of experience. And the exercises, [it has] smart exercises.
How would you characterize, describe, the relations between students and also between students and the teachers? The atmosphere in class?
The atmosphere in class is generally good, but gradually the relationship with the instructor grows stronger, as you know, and so it will become more active, engaged.
Could you tell me a little bit about your study habits outside of class? How do you prepare for class? Is there anything you do other than homework?
Yes, I like to watch American comedian series, like Friends.
What are the greatest challenges in your studies here at JC:HEM?
No, no, I don’t have any challenges. iIt’s all easy here. I like to study in all my life!
Is there anything that you would do to improve the experience?
I don’t work in this field, so I don’t have the experience to talk about this matter. What I see in class is that everything works properly. And Miss Asala, I’ve observed that her way of teaching is good. That’s my opinion. As in, you could bring someone who knows how to speak the English language but who doesn’t know how to teach. Or someone who knows how to teach, but their English is weak. No, Miss Asala’s language is good—her accent is so good, informal and American accent. And she is smart, and she is a good teacher. She took classes in how to teach; I felt that. She knows how to deal with people’s personalities; I felt that. She pays attention to personalities. It’s a correct method in every way.
How is the atmosphere outside of class, after class is done or in between breaks?
I mean, I'm still new in this class. I'm still getting to know the students; [we say] hi only, greet each other. But of course, as time goes on, we will become friends.
What is your greatest source of motivation in your studies?
From the first lesson I attended here, Miss Asala's teaching method impressed me, the whole style. Everything was good, correct as far as I was concerned. And the book, too! And a second thing, Miss Asala doesn't speak Arabic in class. That encouraged me: no Arabic at all. You know, we need to practice! Because we did not have enough practice, and we forgot a lot of words. And she did not speak Arabic, and this thing is important thing to me, to remember the words I forgot. And gradually as one practices the language, it becomes just like Arabic. We need practice.
And so what does learning English mean to you?
English is like a passport!
And how do you hope to use what you’ve learned in the future?
I want to learn English because I think it’s the most important language. And in the future maybe I will live in the United States, and it will be my language, you know? And I will need it to speak in the streets and in my work. Also in the future I would like to study, master’s degree, when I travel to the United States.
What would you like to study?
Maybe software engineering. But [in terms of] work, in the long-term future, I would like to be a director-general for an organization or company or maybe even a minister! This is a dream, I mean. Often, a dream comes from those you observed in your life. My father was a director-general. So all the years he was director-general, I learned from him. I learned many things in management; I learned many of the ideas. And I like that work. As a goal, I hope to become director manager, minister, but this is a distant dream! But [if] one works, perseveres, of course in the end.
I see that America, as a great nation, respect everyone, and because America is respect everyone, everyone can become the person they want if they work hard and persevere. The good person in America can be where he wants if he works and tries, tries, tries.
What does social justice mean to you?
Justice, in general, is the most important thing in life. Social justice is very, very important. Justice differs from equality. With equality, there are people who lose and people who win. And social justice, from its name, must naturally be present in any country. If it is applied correctly, completely, there won't even be divisions in society. Everything will be built in a correct manner. Social justice is important. It sows love: love in the society, between the inhabitants and the society, as a whole, not just among the nationals of that country, all the nationalities. Social justice means a human, an ordinary human—everyone respects them as a human. There is no difference between a human and another human. All the matters are correct, education, you know A to Z.
In your opinion or experience, do you think that social justice is here at JC:HEM?
I felt in class, the first day, that there was a presence from all—Iraqis, Sudanese, Syrians, Jordanians, present from all. This is something I observed; I saw it with my eyes, chosen from all the nationalities (the plurality Iraqi because they were the most represented as a nationality, true). Different ages, male and female, and also the levels of English for each student were different. That's a good thing, that there is not one color, all the same, or everyone same level in the language, or everyone from one nationality, no! So as for there to be acceptance of the other, it helps one to become more open.
That, for example, someone younger in age sits next to someone older than them in age, or someone who speaks better English than them so that they can benefit from them, or someone less good at English so they can help them. Yes, that is important, and in the long term it opens up one’s ideas. In the long term it’s better, so as for someone to not close up on themselves.
My name is Fadi; I am 30. I studied software engineering in Iraq, Baghdad, [where I’m from]. I graduated in 2007, bachelor’s degree. After I graduated I worked in power plants projects in planning department for seven years, and after that I came to Amman, Jordan, one year and six months ago, in December 2014. When I came to Amman, Jordan, I submit refugee, and I want to travel to the United States and live there. I am here with my family: my father, mother, and one brother. He’s 28; he’s like me, software engineer.
What was your experience when you arrived in Amman?
The security situation is good in Amman. The electricity is good. You know, I talk about electricity because in Iraq it’s not good, it’s bad. Amman is like America in many things; I saw this. I saw in Amman respect for everyone. Baghdad now, it’s not—you know, I don’t want to enter the topic—I don’t like politics. But yes, in Amman there is freedom; I’ve seen this. What I saw here in Amman is a partnership that links the United States and Jordan, which I like. I see, for example, that Jordan is a state that has more forbearance in comparison to Iraq. And the relationship between the United States and Jordan is strong; with the United States and the European Union, that support is noticeable, present. I’ve seen positive things here as a result of that cooperation and partnership.
What were the first few months like in Amman? Were there challenges or difficulties?
There aren’t any difficulties. In Amman they speak the Arabic language. You’d have difficulties [if you did not speak the language. But] why do you not face difficulties in Amman? In Amman there is transparency, so there are no difficulties. And there is a law that is strong in Amman. This law imposes a good state of affairs. You know, if there is no law, everything...if there is law, there is freedom. You find respect, transparency.
I have friends; they live here before, in Amman. When they travel to United States and live there, they call me and said Amman is like a small America. As in, the person who lives in Iraq and lives in America—no big difference. In Amman, when you walk in the street, you see all nationalities. Same thing in America. That comes from freedom, from law, from transparency, and many good things.
How has life changed, then, since you’ve arrived?
When I was in Baghdad, I worked. Now, I can’t work because you know, in Jordan, Jordan has rules. Now I am refugee; I can’t work. I must respect the rules of Jordan. We, as refugees, do not know when we will travel, and the duration of our stay here has lengthened a lot. There are no appointments for resettlement, and all of the interviews with the UN have stopped. And this thing worries us a lot, because we are without work and we are not allowed to work, and the costs of living here are very expensive, with apartment rent, electricity, etc.
How did you find out about JRS?
I heard about JRS from my friends and Facebook.
What did your friends say about JRS?
They said JRS has a great courses in English. And they told me if I come here I will improve my English. Because, you know, I did not have enough practice, so I need to practice my English language.
Tell me about the class. What are your experiences in learning English here?
I like the class, and I like also Miss Asala; she’s smart. And also I like the book, and I think this book, the people that put it together are experts, the result of years of work. If you flip through it—they are specialists in the language. The work of many years, the result of a lot of experience. And the exercises, [it has] smart exercises.
How would you characterize, describe, the relations between students and also between students and the teachers? The atmosphere in class?
The atmosphere in class is generally good, but gradually the relationship with the instructor grows stronger, as you know, and so it will become more active, engaged.
Could you tell me a little bit about your study habits outside of class? How do you prepare for class? Is there anything you do other than homework?
Yes, I like to watch American comedian series, like Friends.
What are the greatest challenges in your studies here at JC:HEM?
No, no, I don’t have any challenges. iIt’s all easy here. I like to study in all my life!
Is there anything that you would do to improve the experience?
I don’t work in this field, so I don’t have the experience to talk about this matter. What I see in class is that everything works properly. And Miss Asala, I’ve observed that her way of teaching is good. That’s my opinion. As in, you could bring someone who knows how to speak the English language but who doesn’t know how to teach. Or someone who knows how to teach, but their English is weak. No, Miss Asala’s language is good—her accent is so good, informal and American accent. And she is smart, and she is a good teacher. She took classes in how to teach; I felt that. She knows how to deal with people’s personalities; I felt that. She pays attention to personalities. It’s a correct method in every way.
How is the atmosphere outside of class, after class is done or in between breaks?
I mean, I'm still new in this class. I'm still getting to know the students; [we say] hi only, greet each other. But of course, as time goes on, we will become friends.
What is your greatest source of motivation in your studies?
From the first lesson I attended here, Miss Asala's teaching method impressed me, the whole style. Everything was good, correct as far as I was concerned. And the book, too! And a second thing, Miss Asala doesn't speak Arabic in class. That encouraged me: no Arabic at all. You know, we need to practice! Because we did not have enough practice, and we forgot a lot of words. And she did not speak Arabic, and this thing is important thing to me, to remember the words I forgot. And gradually as one practices the language, it becomes just like Arabic. We need practice.
And so what does learning English mean to you?
English is like a passport!
And how do you hope to use what you’ve learned in the future?
I want to learn English because I think it’s the most important language. And in the future maybe I will live in the United States, and it will be my language, you know? And I will need it to speak in the streets and in my work. Also in the future I would like to study, master’s degree, when I travel to the United States.
What would you like to study?
Maybe software engineering. But [in terms of] work, in the long-term future, I would like to be a director-general for an organization or company or maybe even a minister! This is a dream, I mean. Often, a dream comes from those you observed in your life. My father was a director-general. So all the years he was director-general, I learned from him. I learned many things in management; I learned many of the ideas. And I like that work. As a goal, I hope to become director manager, minister, but this is a distant dream! But [if] one works, perseveres, of course in the end.
I see that America, as a great nation, respect everyone, and because America is respect everyone, everyone can become the person they want if they work hard and persevere. The good person in America can be where he wants if he works and tries, tries, tries.
What does social justice mean to you?
Justice, in general, is the most important thing in life. Social justice is very, very important. Justice differs from equality. With equality, there are people who lose and people who win. And social justice, from its name, must naturally be present in any country. If it is applied correctly, completely, there won't even be divisions in society. Everything will be built in a correct manner. Social justice is important. It sows love: love in the society, between the inhabitants and the society, as a whole, not just among the nationals of that country, all the nationalities. Social justice means a human, an ordinary human—everyone respects them as a human. There is no difference between a human and another human. All the matters are correct, education, you know A to Z.
In your opinion or experience, do you think that social justice is here at JC:HEM?
I felt in class, the first day, that there was a presence from all—Iraqis, Sudanese, Syrians, Jordanians, present from all. This is something I observed; I saw it with my eyes, chosen from all the nationalities (the plurality Iraqi because they were the most represented as a nationality, true). Different ages, male and female, and also the levels of English for each student were different. That's a good thing, that there is not one color, all the same, or everyone same level in the language, or everyone from one nationality, no! So as for there to be acceptance of the other, it helps one to become more open.
That, for example, someone younger in age sits next to someone older than them in age, or someone who speaks better English than them so that they can benefit from them, or someone less good at English so they can help them. Yes, that is important, and in the long term it opens up one’s ideas. In the long term it’s better, so as for someone to not close up on themselves.
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