A Discussion with Father Jean Ilboudo, S.J., Director and Co-Founder, CERCLE, Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso
With: Jean Ilboudo Berkley Center Profile
July 14, 2014
Background: As
part of the Education and Social Justice Project, undergraduate student Hopey
Fink interviewed Fr. Jean Ilboudo, S.J. in July 2014. He is the director of the
Jesuit community in Ouagadougou and the co-founder of the Center of Studies and Reflection for Students (le Centre d’Etude et de Réflexion pour Collégiens, Lycéens et Etudiants, CERCLE).
In this interview, Ilboudo discusses the history of the Jesuits and
interreligious dynamics in Burkina Faso, the connection between education and
religion, and the role of tradition in society.
To begin, could you introduce yourself and your background?
I am Jean Ilboudo. I am originally from Burkina. I was born 100 kilometers from here. I did all of my primary and secondary schooling here in Burkina. I was ordained a priest in 1972, after my studies in philosophy and theology. I served for two years as a parish priest, and then I was sent to Cameroon to undergoing Jesuit training. So for the last forty years, I have been in the Society of Jesus.
After the novitiate, I studied history at the University of Abidjan and got my Ph.D. at the University of Lyon. I also spent two years in Rome for spirituality training, where I learned Italian. After my schooling, I worked with the formation of young Jesuits in Abidjan, in Cote d’Ivoire, and afterward I went to Kenya to teach the history of the Church for three years. I was then appointed as adjunct of the provincial from 1993 to 1997. I was then appointed provincial of West Africa until 2000. In 2000, I went to Rome as an advisor to the Father General [of the Jesuits] for Africa. In 2008, I finished my service there and came here to Burkina Faso, my country of origin, where I have been ever since.
I oversee those who are undertaking their 30-day retreats, helping Jesuits understand the Society and the constitution of the Jesuits, as well as their own personal faith. I am happy to find myself back in my country having had the experience of living in other countries... While I was in formation in France, I had the joy of working with the community of L’Arche, with handicapped people. I also worked as a chaplain in Manhattan for a few months, and for a bit in Canada. The sentiment that one gets is that one profits always from experience—with other cultures, with other people, with other manners of living.
Do you try to show these experiences to Burkinabé, with shows, etc.?
I am often called to do TV shows on different themes. For example, today I was talking about the history of Jesuits in Africa. Sometimes I talk about Pope Francis. Since I have studied history, I am often called to talk about the history of the conversion of people here—that was the subject of my dissertation. I posed the question: why did the Mossi people abandon their former religion to become Christians? I wanted to know the reasons. I did surveys among the Mossi and interviewed them about their conversion. There were missionaries here called the White Fathers…it is the story of an encounter, so it is important to have the perspectives of both parties. I had to interview the missionaries and the converted people, and to use archives as well. It’s a history that is our history, the history of our church.
But the chiefs did not convert—why? Since 1901, when the missionaries arrived, no chief has converted.
In your experience and observation, how would you describe the religious environment here? Is there a mixture? How is the interreligious dynamic?
When I was studying conversion, it was necessary to understand the entire religious situation in the country. Before the arrival of the missionaries, there were two religions in place. That which we call “traditional” is not the kind of religion with places of worship, like churches. It is the chief of a family who heads the religion for his family. There are not great manifestations of religion like we see in Islam or Christianity. They believe in God; they believe that ancestors who have died are close to God, and that there are good spirits who help us and bad spirits as well.
Islam arrived here before Christianity, in the 1500s. People here had contact with North Africa, and Islam was brought from there mostly by merchants. They would travel and encourage the people to pray like they did. They converted people with their merchandise but also with Islam. Several traditional chiefs began to convert, and thus Islam began to spread, but the great majority of people were not Muslim.
Christianity arrived in 1900. There began to be Christian converts—we do not have very precise statistics, but we think that Christians are currently 20 percent [of the population in Burkina Faso], counting Catholics and Protestants. Muslims make up about 40 to 50 percent, and traditional religion remains the most important. Islam, like Catholicism, draws its converts mostly from traditional religion. New converts come from traditional religion, whether to Islam or to Christianity.
One thing I could add is that many of the Muslims who brought Islam from the north were people who could read and write Arabic. Here, it is not like that—here, many Muslims do not know how to read or write Arabic. Many learn their prayers by heart; their leaders often can read and write, but the masses cannot. Thus in order to preach, you must have some sort of education in Arabic. Not just anyone can become an imam. The Islam here is also not a rigid Islam. We see many traditional practices that are accepted by Muslims…for example, many people wear gris-gris, which is not part of “pure” Islam. Here it is like an amalgam of Islam and traditional religion…there are some groups who want to return to a pure integration of Islam, but not the masses.
Between the religions, there is communication. For example, we have Muslims who want to marry Christian girls—we have lots of marriages like this. This poses some problems…usually there are two options. Sometimes the man can insist that his wife become Muslim. If the woman does not want to, this can be difficult. But there are also many cases where the man says, “I accept your religion,” and he leaves her as a Christian and as his wife. In this case, he must come to the church and give his consent in front of the priest. We do not demand that the Muslim convert, but we ask that he give his consent in the church. At this moment, the marriage is recognized by the church, and the wife can continue practicing her Christian faith. In the inverse, when a Christian man wants to marry a Muslim girl, often the man must convert to Islam. Overall though, Islam and Christianity are not in conflict here. For example, in the villages there are many communal activities where Muslims and Christians participate together. It is a tolerant Islam…we can work together.
In your own work, do you have the occasion to interact with people of other religions?
For my interviews, I often interview Muslims. I met a man, for example, who used to be Christian and is now Muslim, and I asked him why he converted. He said he studied the two books, the Qur'an and the Bible, and found that the Qur'an was true.
Is there a link between religion and literacy?
Yes, it is clear—one of the reasons is education. When the missionaries arrived, they began building schools, and children of the traditional religion entered into school and became literate. People started to realize that education was valuable; it opened the eyes of people in traditional religions, and they were no longer satisfied with the knowledge of their tradition. Another reason is that many people who traveled in Europe, often with the army, were able to see the Christian religion in a different setting. In cities, people were in contact with different religions. The displacement from villages to cities opened people to more universal imagination, Islam and Christianity.
Could you talk a bit about the creation of the center here, and the connection with the Jesuit community?
I have been here since the birth! The first Jesuits arrived here in 1974. They came at the demand of the bishop. Two years ago, we celebrated the twenty-fifth anniversary of CERCLE. When the Jesuits first arrived, the bishops knew of our charisma and said, “See what you can do in this country.” The fathers saw students in the streets at night, studying their lessons under the streetlights outside. Cars passed, cyclists passed, people passed, but they were sitting there with their books and notebooks.
Could we think of a center where we could make available rooms and calm spaces where people could come to study? That was the original idea. Often they were in the streets because there was no electricity at home, and there was too much noise in their families, thus homes were not favorable places to study. The center was created to welcome students, but it was not a school, just a space for people to study before returning home. Since we did not have a parish, we would have had to look for a center outside the city, so we looked for somewhere more central. The parish St. Pierre here already had some land, so we asked them to cede some land to us to construct this center. They accepted—so we are constructed inside the parish walls. It is open until 11 p.m. The registration fee is not enough to cover all costs, including the employees. The Society foots the rest of the bill.
We proposed support courses for those who had already failed the BAC [baccalaureate exam]. We did these just until last year. The original idea of the center was a place of silence and calm. Those who came for the courses came in and out, made lots of noise—it was just like a school establishment. It began to be disruptive to the original project of the center.
Now we are able to refocus on the mission of the center. We have accompaniment, and we still offer formations, according to the discretion of the director. These formations can even interest those who are not necessarily registered.
I think that a lot of students fail their exams not because they are not intelligent but because they do not know how to work—methods of study. With a good method, even someone who is not extremely intelligent can have good results. He who is intelligent with a poor method can fail.
Is this part of integral formation? How are these values linked to your spiritual activities?
We form men and women for others, people who are open to serving others. We are part of the same community, we Jesuits here at CERCLE and at the spiritual center. Each person does what his skills and experience allow him to do.
What is your biggest challenge and then the thing you are most proud of?
The biggest challenge is that we feel strongly that the Christian faith is not a faith that you can live en masse. It is an individual faith, and the individual must live his faith with authenticity. The spiritual exercises focus on this. We want to form people who live their experiences authentically. How can we transmit the values that we carry? The value of service, the value of respect, the respect of self, the respect of justice. We want to provide a space for individuals to grow in these ways, even in the context of corruption and other struggles.
I am Jean Ilboudo. I am originally from Burkina. I was born 100 kilometers from here. I did all of my primary and secondary schooling here in Burkina. I was ordained a priest in 1972, after my studies in philosophy and theology. I served for two years as a parish priest, and then I was sent to Cameroon to undergoing Jesuit training. So for the last forty years, I have been in the Society of Jesus.
After the novitiate, I studied history at the University of Abidjan and got my Ph.D. at the University of Lyon. I also spent two years in Rome for spirituality training, where I learned Italian. After my schooling, I worked with the formation of young Jesuits in Abidjan, in Cote d’Ivoire, and afterward I went to Kenya to teach the history of the Church for three years. I was then appointed as adjunct of the provincial from 1993 to 1997. I was then appointed provincial of West Africa until 2000. In 2000, I went to Rome as an advisor to the Father General [of the Jesuits] for Africa. In 2008, I finished my service there and came here to Burkina Faso, my country of origin, where I have been ever since.
I oversee those who are undertaking their 30-day retreats, helping Jesuits understand the Society and the constitution of the Jesuits, as well as their own personal faith. I am happy to find myself back in my country having had the experience of living in other countries... While I was in formation in France, I had the joy of working with the community of L’Arche, with handicapped people. I also worked as a chaplain in Manhattan for a few months, and for a bit in Canada. The sentiment that one gets is that one profits always from experience—with other cultures, with other people, with other manners of living.
Do you try to show these experiences to Burkinabé, with shows, etc.?
I am often called to do TV shows on different themes. For example, today I was talking about the history of Jesuits in Africa. Sometimes I talk about Pope Francis. Since I have studied history, I am often called to talk about the history of the conversion of people here—that was the subject of my dissertation. I posed the question: why did the Mossi people abandon their former religion to become Christians? I wanted to know the reasons. I did surveys among the Mossi and interviewed them about their conversion. There were missionaries here called the White Fathers…it is the story of an encounter, so it is important to have the perspectives of both parties. I had to interview the missionaries and the converted people, and to use archives as well. It’s a history that is our history, the history of our church.
But the chiefs did not convert—why? Since 1901, when the missionaries arrived, no chief has converted.
In your experience and observation, how would you describe the religious environment here? Is there a mixture? How is the interreligious dynamic?
When I was studying conversion, it was necessary to understand the entire religious situation in the country. Before the arrival of the missionaries, there were two religions in place. That which we call “traditional” is not the kind of religion with places of worship, like churches. It is the chief of a family who heads the religion for his family. There are not great manifestations of religion like we see in Islam or Christianity. They believe in God; they believe that ancestors who have died are close to God, and that there are good spirits who help us and bad spirits as well.
Islam arrived here before Christianity, in the 1500s. People here had contact with North Africa, and Islam was brought from there mostly by merchants. They would travel and encourage the people to pray like they did. They converted people with their merchandise but also with Islam. Several traditional chiefs began to convert, and thus Islam began to spread, but the great majority of people were not Muslim.
Christianity arrived in 1900. There began to be Christian converts—we do not have very precise statistics, but we think that Christians are currently 20 percent [of the population in Burkina Faso], counting Catholics and Protestants. Muslims make up about 40 to 50 percent, and traditional religion remains the most important. Islam, like Catholicism, draws its converts mostly from traditional religion. New converts come from traditional religion, whether to Islam or to Christianity.
One thing I could add is that many of the Muslims who brought Islam from the north were people who could read and write Arabic. Here, it is not like that—here, many Muslims do not know how to read or write Arabic. Many learn their prayers by heart; their leaders often can read and write, but the masses cannot. Thus in order to preach, you must have some sort of education in Arabic. Not just anyone can become an imam. The Islam here is also not a rigid Islam. We see many traditional practices that are accepted by Muslims…for example, many people wear gris-gris, which is not part of “pure” Islam. Here it is like an amalgam of Islam and traditional religion…there are some groups who want to return to a pure integration of Islam, but not the masses.
Between the religions, there is communication. For example, we have Muslims who want to marry Christian girls—we have lots of marriages like this. This poses some problems…usually there are two options. Sometimes the man can insist that his wife become Muslim. If the woman does not want to, this can be difficult. But there are also many cases where the man says, “I accept your religion,” and he leaves her as a Christian and as his wife. In this case, he must come to the church and give his consent in front of the priest. We do not demand that the Muslim convert, but we ask that he give his consent in the church. At this moment, the marriage is recognized by the church, and the wife can continue practicing her Christian faith. In the inverse, when a Christian man wants to marry a Muslim girl, often the man must convert to Islam. Overall though, Islam and Christianity are not in conflict here. For example, in the villages there are many communal activities where Muslims and Christians participate together. It is a tolerant Islam…we can work together.
In your own work, do you have the occasion to interact with people of other religions?
For my interviews, I often interview Muslims. I met a man, for example, who used to be Christian and is now Muslim, and I asked him why he converted. He said he studied the two books, the Qur'an and the Bible, and found that the Qur'an was true.
Is there a link between religion and literacy?
Yes, it is clear—one of the reasons is education. When the missionaries arrived, they began building schools, and children of the traditional religion entered into school and became literate. People started to realize that education was valuable; it opened the eyes of people in traditional religions, and they were no longer satisfied with the knowledge of their tradition. Another reason is that many people who traveled in Europe, often with the army, were able to see the Christian religion in a different setting. In cities, people were in contact with different religions. The displacement from villages to cities opened people to more universal imagination, Islam and Christianity.
Could you talk a bit about the creation of the center here, and the connection with the Jesuit community?
I have been here since the birth! The first Jesuits arrived here in 1974. They came at the demand of the bishop. Two years ago, we celebrated the twenty-fifth anniversary of CERCLE. When the Jesuits first arrived, the bishops knew of our charisma and said, “See what you can do in this country.” The fathers saw students in the streets at night, studying their lessons under the streetlights outside. Cars passed, cyclists passed, people passed, but they were sitting there with their books and notebooks.
Could we think of a center where we could make available rooms and calm spaces where people could come to study? That was the original idea. Often they were in the streets because there was no electricity at home, and there was too much noise in their families, thus homes were not favorable places to study. The center was created to welcome students, but it was not a school, just a space for people to study before returning home. Since we did not have a parish, we would have had to look for a center outside the city, so we looked for somewhere more central. The parish St. Pierre here already had some land, so we asked them to cede some land to us to construct this center. They accepted—so we are constructed inside the parish walls. It is open until 11 p.m. The registration fee is not enough to cover all costs, including the employees. The Society foots the rest of the bill.
We proposed support courses for those who had already failed the BAC [baccalaureate exam]. We did these just until last year. The original idea of the center was a place of silence and calm. Those who came for the courses came in and out, made lots of noise—it was just like a school establishment. It began to be disruptive to the original project of the center.
Now we are able to refocus on the mission of the center. We have accompaniment, and we still offer formations, according to the discretion of the director. These formations can even interest those who are not necessarily registered.
I think that a lot of students fail their exams not because they are not intelligent but because they do not know how to work—methods of study. With a good method, even someone who is not extremely intelligent can have good results. He who is intelligent with a poor method can fail.
Is this part of integral formation? How are these values linked to your spiritual activities?
We form men and women for others, people who are open to serving others. We are part of the same community, we Jesuits here at CERCLE and at the spiritual center. Each person does what his skills and experience allow him to do.
What is your biggest challenge and then the thing you are most proud of?
The biggest challenge is that we feel strongly that the Christian faith is not a faith that you can live en masse. It is an individual faith, and the individual must live his faith with authenticity. The spiritual exercises focus on this. We want to form people who live their experiences authentically. How can we transmit the values that we carry? The value of service, the value of respect, the respect of self, the respect of justice. We want to provide a space for individuals to grow in these ways, even in the context of corruption and other struggles.
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