Background: As part of the Education and Social Justice Project, in April 2021 undergraduate student Gabrielle Villadolid (C’21) interviewed Maricel Hernandez, director and classroom teacher at Magis Center for Equity and Inclusion in Saint Ignatius College Preparatory (SI), San Francisco, California, U.S. In this interview, Hernandez talks about the meaning of Magis’ programs to SI community members.
Would you mind reintroducing yourself a bit and just tell me a little bit about what you’re currently doing, and your connection to Magis
Sure. So my name is Maricel Hernandez—she/her, my pronouns are she and her. I am currently serving as the director of the Center for Equity and Inclusion, or for short, the director of equity and inclusion. And my connection to Magis—before my formal role as serving as director, I joined the Saint Ignatius community in the school year 2014-2015, and the summer of 2015—no, the summer of 2016, I taught in the Magis middle school summer enrichment program, and the Magis Summer School program is one of the programs that the newly formed Magis Center oversees, the center’s offerings. So I taught that summer—I taught for two summers, the summer of 2016 and in the summer of 2017. And those were the last two years of the middle school program, so I taught math there, and then in 2017 there was office restructuring, some folks left, and I served as the interim co-director of equity and inclusion for the Magis Center in 2018, and then I applied for the director position when it reopened in 2018 and got the position, so I’ve been serving as the director, full time director of the Magis Center for Equity and Inclusion since 2018.
And pre-pandemic, how often did you visit the Magis Center’s physical location during your time at SI?
That is considered my office space as well, so every single day! And I would be in the office typically... [it’d] be hard for me to put a percentage on it, but depending on the amount of meetings I would have, or phone calls or visiting classrooms or other offices, I might not be in the office, but that is where my home space is.
Okay, and also connecting with the previous question, what were your reasons for visiting the Magis Center? And, although you just elaborated, these can be personal, social, professional, academic etc.
Yeah, so even before my role as Director of Equity and Inclusion, I would frequent the Magis Center. Once I learned about the Magis Program and became more friendly, and you know, more collaborative with the adults that work there and also with students. My first year I was co-moderator of our Association of Latin American students and the second year I was there I was co-moderator of the Asian Students Coalition, and so I had already been making connections with students who were part of the Magis program through those organizations, but also through my classroom teaching experience. And so I learned more about the Magis program there and then I became really good friends with Ana Hernandez who–well, first Abram Jackson and then Ana Hernandez who were my predecessors in this role, essentially. Ana was really like a mentor and sponsor for me at the school along with Matt Balano who was SI’s first director of equity and inclusion. And so I got to know them, they were very supportive. And the Magis Center was just like a home away from home, you know, when I wasn't teaching, you know, I love being in the space, it was just really nice to chat with folks that you know, maybe had some similar backgrounds that I did. You know, we shared some cultural experiences together and it was nice to just be in the space and chat. And to reconnect with students that maybe I didn't see during the day, so.
And so thinking back to when you would physically just go into the Magis Center—pre-pandemic, of course—what was it that you noticed about the space? This is meant to be an ambiguous question so that you can take it however you wish–and so what did you notice about the space and how did this make you feel, the physical space?
Mhmm. I'll kind of talk about it before. Because the office had a makeover essentially, and so, talk about before makeover and after makeover. So before the makeover, it was essentially the Magis office, which housed the Magis high school program and the middle school program at the time, and then the other office which was adjacent to it was the Office of Equity and Inclusion. And just so that I’m clear—hold on, let me close my door, one second.
Okay, sorry, so I was gonna ask, do you want me to just talk about the Magis Office or the Office of Equity and Inclusion and the Magis office?
Really wherever you want to take the question.
Okay! Well, I'll focus on the Magis office, which was really housing the program at the time. Before the offices merged, so that's an important piece, that the offices emerged, but I’ll focus on the Magis office. So it's really a student centered space, it was colorful. It’s always been colorful. You had, you know, a lot of student work. Just information, easily accessible information about what was happening around campus, different events. There were around tables in there, so folks could collaborate on whatever they were working on, there were some computers. A printer, of course, you know, the director’s desk.
And it was just very like, there would be some days where there would be silent, you know, hours in the office, and it was really like, mood lighting and it was really just like a calming atmosphere. And then there were times where it was really vibrant and you know, just filled with students. Like there were times when it was just packed, right, and it was just students eating lunch and there's a microwave in there, too, so eating lunch and just chatting to times when kids were working on projects or I always like to point out that you know, the promposals were being made and then there, you know, some some more comfortable like, sofa seating as well, where a lot of you know, one on one conversations took place about things that were happening, you know, in students’ lives.
Personally, academically, socially right, it was a place, it's been a place, always I'd say, that those conversations can take place. And then moving into more recently, there is now a big TV in there so that we can show the announcements and that we can you know, play the news when the important things are happening and we can stay up to date. Or we could watch a film, right, that you know, we didn't have to move out of the Magis office. Before it was too small. Now that we've merged the Offices, it's a much larger space where we can do more programming out of our office, so we'll have our Wednesday and Thursday college workshops in there. Students working on their college applications, their personal statements, asking questions about financial aid and scholarships. And yeah, during resource, I mean kids will come in, colleagues will come in and just check in, chat. Pick up a resource, you know, there are books in there, like a little library, SAT prep, ACT prep books. There are also two closets filled with just glue and construction paper and scissors and rulers and compasses and whatever students might need to complete an assignment or do a project.
So I would characterize it as like, a comfortable and safe place for students, I'd say predominantly students of color. Predominantly students who are part of the Magis high school program. But now that the offices have merged and now we're the Magis Center for Equity and Inclusion, we're definitely seeing students from all backgrounds and all experiences come into the office. And the culture is changing shifting a little bit, I think, you know, where the Magis office used to be a hub, a space for, you know, that safe space for students in the Magis program, I think it's still is, plus it's an additional space as a resource for any student who might have, you know, an issue concerning equity and inclusion. We often hold you know, restorative justice circles in there and that could be with anybody right, you know, with teachers. So... I don’t know, it was open ended, so I kind of went everywhere with that. I think I covered most of it.
That's perfect, that's perfect. So could you describe your participation with Magis activities? What was that like and how did your participation in these make you feel?
Okay sorry, I just want to mention one thing also because it’s really important. As a college prep school and as an office that really supports and advocates for students, particularly students who have been underserved in higher education and opportunity and access to get to college and complete college, I think it's important for me to state that we have the pents all around the office of different colleges and universities around the country. Just so students can really see, you know, college in the space as well, I think that's an important aspect of the office is that, you know, we want students to successfully complete SI. And if they choose to go to college, we want to fully support that process for them and their family, so a lot of college resources around the room too. Okay, so what programs have I been involved in? Is that the question?
Yes, your participation in any Magis activities and how did it make you feel?
Yeah, so I'll start with the middle school summer program, enrichment program, so as a teacher, as a math teacher for rising eighth and rising ninth graders, teaching students who are first generation college bound, or maybe low income or students who are not in the majority either at SI or in institutions of higher education, how did it make me feel? I really saw myself in a lot of the students that I taught. I’m a first generation college graduate in my family. I’m actually the first college graduate in my family with a bachelor's and master's. And so I think that was really special for me to be able to work with students that maybe had a similar background in terms of being first generation and to be able to share my experience and what I’ve learned was really important to me, you know. I know it was hard for me to find mentors as a young, you know, brown biracial girl, you know, it was hard for me to find mentors and I remember it being really difficult for me and my parent-my parents worked so hard and I remember you know, sitting with my mom doing the FAFSA and you know, she had never done that before, and it was hard, right.
And so I just, I know the value of mentorship and to be able to provide that or to just be there for students who might need some support is really important to me, so that teaching in the middle school program, offering high school placement test prep, you know, like that—I guess, I would just characterize as it's important for me to reach back and pull folks up, you know. And that they see that, they know that there's people who see their potential and believe in them and want to see them succeed, so a lot of really joyful memories of the Magis middle school program.
It was summer and you know, who wants to work during a summer when there are–you’re used to not working over the summer, but it was just so–it was really a blessing to be able to be a part of that community, that family, as we call it. And now they're graduating, this is the last year of the graduates so it's really, it's bittersweet. And then, as part of the high school program, you know, we do a yearly four day southern California college tour, which is one of our biggest programs and each year, we take anywhere between 40 and 50 students and faculty and staff who join as well and you know, again, it hits home because you know, for some of our students, this is the first time that they're going to step foot on a college campus, or see a college campus that's not in their hometown, right. So not USF [University of San Francisco] or SF state [San Francisco State University] but and... yeah, it's a, it's a bonding experience for all of us, I think we all really get to know each other much better after spending four days on a bus with one another and you know, all of the faculty and staff that accompany our students, you know, share a testimonial of their coming of age and what going to college was like for them and some experiences that they had in through that process that really humanize us for students and they see us in a different way and hopefully they see a little bit of themselves in us too. But that college tour is really special.
And then I think moving to more recently in the last two years we've started a first year overnight retreat with students. And you know, it's an open invitation to anyone who identifies with one of the three, you know, characteristics of the Magis program and the first year was truly an overnight. We did it on campus, we slept in Orradre Chapel and we had a bonfire, we had storytelling, we got to know—we had fun games like, you know, we asked everyone to bring a cultural artifact to share, you know, what's important to them and their family as a way to have students get to know a little bit of the Magis community before they actually stepped foot on campus the first day of school. Because we know that that's really difficult, you know, especially coming into a school where maybe they're the only student from their grammar school, entering a really big community of over 15,000 people right, so how you know, the idea was how do we create that family feeling for students who will be the first in their in their family to apply to college? Or maybe even go through high school, right? And so just really heartwarming and again, it's just a very special community to me that feels like family and so that’s, that's one of the really beautiful things about the program.
Now beyond the Magis middle school program and high school program that I just talked about, I think some of the other really enriching experiences as part of the Magis Center for Equity and Inclusion are you know, different opportunities to walk along with my colleagues, faculty and staff, on their personal and professional journey to becoming anti-biased and anti-racist, I think is a really special experience too. And it's emotional, it's very emotional work, it's very exhausting work, emotionally exhausting work. But this is, this is my calling, this is my passion, right. To be able to support students so that they can, you know... as best participate fully in the life of the school community and to support our faculty and staff in creating those inclusive experiences and classrooms for our students who have been on the margins for forever, right. And so it's my passion, I think it's my life's work, and it's tiring but it's also really rewarding and you know I just want to see people grow and thrive and that's what this work is about. So different conferences that I've attended with folks, you know, the white privilege conference or the people of color conference or equity is excellence, I mean you know, different conferences or different lunch-and-learns that I’ve had, we've hosted in the Magis Center for faculty and staff to come back and talk about what are those takeaways that they got from whatever professional development experience they had.
What are some, some questions that they're wrestling with or reflecting on and sharing resources, I think, is really what the work is about.
All right, thank you so much for that. And moving on to the next question, what impressions do you have about how other students, faculty and other members of the SI Community interact with the Magis space and activities? I know you touched a little bit on it just before.
Mhmm. Can you just clarify, when you say other students, faculty and other members of that community, are you talking about folks who don't have any direct involvement with the program, but more so just?
Mhmm. Yeah, I guess, since it seems that you have a specific community in mind as you, as you're answering the first couple questions, just maybe thinking about the SI community who you're not talking about in those questions.
Mhm, mhmm... Yeah, I think there still is a need to educate our larger community on what the Magis Center for Equity and Inclusion, who we are and what our purpose is. I think we could do a better job of introducing ourselves at the beginning of every school year, you know, there's always new members—we do it for our freshman families, I think that our freshmen families always have a really good introduction from us, and you know, in terms of our faculty and staff that may be newer and students, you know, sometimes forget things or they might have their own impressions of what they see, their own perceptions, so I definitely think we can do better at really introducing ourselves and what we offer and the space that we provide for folks. I think it's still perceived as the place where Black and brown students go when they're not you know, in class, which is... is an interesting observation, I'd say, because the same observation isn't made about, you know, white students that gather together in other spaces at the school, right, or Asian students that might gather in other parts of the school. And that need for affinity in a predominantly white school is so critical. You know, to be able to to go through most of your academic day feeling like the only person of your race or ethnicity in those academic spaces can be tiring and so finding that community, I think, is really important, just for sustainability and to know that you have a community, right. And so I think there's still that perception and that needs to be, there is, I think, some truth to that, but also, there's so much more that the space provides and offers that I think a lot of our community still needs to learn about.
Thank you, and so, in light of your experience with Magis, uh, what do the Magis Center’s descriptors, equity and inclusion mean to you?
So equity—this is a great question because I think when talking about diversity, equity and inclusion, it’s so important to be on the same page about what those terms mean so that we have a common understanding, but the way we define equity at SI and in our Magis Center for Equity and Inclusion—sorry.
No problem.
Is equity is the process and guarantee of justice that acknowledges individuals’ history, history, experiences and needs, right. And equity recognizes that treating people based on their needs may be necessary to ensure that they can access things equally, right. And we want students to not just be at SI, we want them to thrive at SI, right, and so it's really about meeting our students and our faculty and our parents and guardians where their needs are. Um... and then um, I’m sorry, I’m really distracted by my son.
Do you want to maybe take a pause or step away for a bit?
I think it’ll be okay. And then inclusion is about creating the conditions with a strategic attention to those who have been excluded. Where all feel accepted, safe, empowered, supported and affirmed. It’s about giving everyone a voice. And we do this through you know, systems and structures right, how do we ensure that folks have access to a community. And I think it's an important distinction also–I think more recently we've been hearing this word about belonging, this word belonging, right, and how that's different from inclusion. I think inclusion is the way to belonging, right, so it's more of the verb whereas belonging is more of the feeling. To feel seen, to be heard, to be valued, to be loved, right. It’s, I guess, the measure of the impact of inclusion or inclusive effort, or that's how we define equity and inclusion.
And, if any, would connect—oh! Sorry, I'm sorry, what do, what does the term magis mean to you?
It’s a great question. I think, not I think, but for me, you know, when I was first introduced to the word, it was really the greater or the more, right, as it pertains to not being content with doing the bare minimum, right, to really go above and beyond and yet to not be complacent, right. And for me, I would take that a step further and add you know, I think it's a call to be accountable and aware of our individual positionality, like where we stand in the world, and what influence we have, and you know, accountability to our growth areas and whether that's, you know, recognizing difference between intent versus impact, right, and understanding privilege and you know, what those barriers are that exclude people from access... And what do you do with that knowledge, right? Like what do we do, knowing our positionality, our privilege and you know, how do we contribute or—yeah, how do we contribute to making the world a better place or maintaining the status quo, you know? How do we interrupt the status quo? I think that's a more succinct way of describing what magis means to me, but how do we, yeah, disrupt the status quo, whether that's like, systems and structures that have marginalized and oppressed particularly people of color, women, LGBTQ folks, or how do we interrupt the status quo of the intergenerational systems of our family structures, right, whether that's being the first to go to college or to complete high school or you know, to address anti-Blackness in our family, right? What are those things that we’re aware of, and what are we doing to dismantle them or change them or interrupt them.
Thank you, and what connection, if any, do you perceive between equity and inclusion and magis, and it's completely fine if you don't perceive any, I just want to know your thoughts.
Yeah I think, I don't know, I’d probably just take from my previous answer, but I think there is a direct connection, you know, when I think about Saint Ignatius being a college preparatory school, right. Like what does that mean for folks who are applying there, right, does it mean that my child is going to go to college? Like, is the school going to prepare my child for going to college when I myself haven't gone to college, for example? You know, and how do we make that possible right? And so it's things like the Magis High School program—that is a system or structure to hopefully ensure access to that college application process and experience. You know I, just to give an example, I mean some of our families and students, you know, who are first generation college bound who don't, who have never gone through that process, who don't have a parent who's ever gone through that process, right, how are we providing support that you know, some of our students counterparts just have right, by not being first generation or having a parent or even both parents who graduated from college and their grandparents and their siblings and their—you know. And so I think there's a direct connection. I also think about—can I talk a little bit about post COVID times?
Mhmm, mhmm!
Yeah you know, even thinking about what we would consider a basic need right now, which is access to Internet, right, to do digital learning. We absolutely have families who don't have access to reliable strong Internet or even a quiet place to do work, right, or a desk to sit at, a comfortable place to work, and so what do we do as an institution to ensure that all of our families have access to digital learning? Whether that's providing hotspots to families to providing, you know, headphones or even you know, do students rely on school food, food at school? To be fed right? You know, and I would say yeah, I think some of our families and students do, and so, how are we providing that extra layer layer of financial support, essentially, so that our families and students, you know, our students are able to eat a healthy meal, a nutritious meal, while going to school from a remote location. So I think there's a direct, an absolute direct, I think they're one in the same. I think they're, they're the same.
And—if any—what connections do you see between equity and inclusion and particularly racial justice?
Yeah, I think there's a very strong connection between equity and inclusion and racial justice. I think when we think about race, race impacts 100% of what we do, the decisions we make, because we are all coming from that particular lens of whatever race we have, you know, or we're perceived as. It does impact everything. It impacts where we grew up, where we go to school, you know, the information we take in, what we teach, what we learn, right. And you know, if we're talking about St. Ignatius, you know, and thinking about St. Ignatius, SI as an institution, you know, when were the first Black students, you know, admitted to SI? I don't have the year on that, but I want to say, I mean, SI was founded in 1855. Maybe the first Black students were like late 1960s, I would even push it to the 1970s, I mean, right, that's not that far long ago. Don't quote me on that one, I want to actually get the year on that, but when we think about the resources that SI and the experiences that our students have because of those resources and because of the access, level of education, and where students go to school and what they who they're connected with as a result of going to SI, I mean, who's left out? Right? I think we're now just reaching a place of–you know, we're at 51% students of color. But I think a lot of our students of color would probably still say the school feels pretty white, right?
The culture feels very traditional, very white and so, I think I’m getting a little away from the question, but when we're talking about racial justice, I think about our classrooms and what we're teaching, and who's in our classrooms and who's teaching right? I think about 70, 70 to 75% of our faculty and staff are white. And so where do our Black students see themselves in their classrooms, right? Where do they see themselves in administration? Where do they see themselves in the curriculum? You know, and I think even for our white students, so it's, even more importantly for our white students, where are they getting exposure to the... beauty, the excellence, the intelligence of diverse communities, you know, where do they get that experience right? And that's ultimately how you build inclusion and that's how you build equity right? I can only do better if I know better, right? And so, and some might argue with that, but yeah, I think there's definitely a connection there. Hopefully I answered the question, sorry that was a little all over the place.
It's perfect. And in the context of contemporary social justice issues and movements today, you’ve already talked about some of them, such as those related to COVID, Black Lives Matter and Stop Asian Hate, what meaning does the Magis Center carry for you? Has its meaning changed for you in the context of these times?
I think... for me I know even more strongly now the importance of the Center for the Saint Ignatius community. I know. I've always known, but I think even now there's–I think we have a stronger presence. I think we're being called on more to support our school community at large on issues of equity inclusion and justice, right. I don't think we're necessarily doing... hmm. It’s a bit unfortunate and this gets me a little emotional because I think I've always known the importance, I've always known the importance of this work and this office and what it does and how it makes people feel, especially for students of color and their families. And I think we're finally feeling, I’m finally feeling like the Office is seen as a support structure for the entire school which I always had hoped it would have been from when I took the job initially, that was my understanding. But I think since COVID and moving to distance learning and the murders of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, the rise in in anti-Asian hate crimes... I think our, the meaning of our office, of the Magis Center... hmm, it’s a good question.
Feel free, if you want to take a pause. I'm just going to be right here.
Yeah no, I’m just thinking. I think we're here to be the–when I say we, I’m talking about the Magis Center–but to be the love and the support and the companion to all of our community members, you know, and I think... I don't think it's changed in the context of these times. I don't think, I think that's always been our mission and our purpose of existence, especially as this new iteration as the Magis Center for Equity and Inclusion, but I think now with Stop Asian Hate and Black Lives Matter and COVID and I think we’re, I don’t know as seen as more important or more valuable, but kind of. It hurts a little to say because you know, the hope is always that our students and our families who've been marginalized are at the center of decision making, are at the center of curriculum development, you know, and in making decisions around what we're teaching and we haven't always been. And I still don't think we are, I think you know, I think that's where we need to grow, but I think we’re doing a little better as an institution.
Thank you for your reflections on that. Is there anything else that you believe is relevant to this conversation that you would like to talk about or that I haven't asked about yet?
Yeah I think one thing I'd like to add is the value of our parent and guardian community... In my 12 years of experience as an educator, I think, well, in my experience, I have seen and I know the value that parents and guardians have on the success of their children and... being at SI the last six years and working closely with Magis families, AALPA parents, SIPAC parents, the ways in which they receive information, the way they're engaged with the larger community, the support that we can provide them through their own affinity groups I think all add to you know, creating an inclusive experience for them.
But their support is so important to our community right? Because it does truly does take a village to see our students, and I mean our students are so strong and unbelievably resilient and they’re advocates for themselves and they're high school students, right, and I think you know, our parents add so much value. We learn so much from them and what their experiences are like as parents of SI students and lending to us, you know, you know their experiences and how we can be better for our students, I think, is critical to creating a more equitable and inclusive place. So I just want to highlight that that's—and it kind of speaks a little bit to question number five, but working with parents has been one of the privileges and honors that I’ve had in this position. You know, I didn't go to a private Catholic high school. I didn't go to predominantly white school. So my experience is different in that respect and that regard and so being able to talk to parents and understand what their experiences are like, what their students’ experiences are like, it's just really valuable to how we make decisions at the school.
All right, thank you so much for your time and thoughts today!
