A Discussion with Pakorn Lertsatienchai, Thai Student

With: Pakorn Lertsatienchai Berkley Center Profile

November 23, 2009

Background: This discussion took place as part of preparations for a consultation on faith and development in Southeast Asia, held in Phnom Penh, Cambodia December 14-15, 2009. The consultation was an endeavor of the World Faiths Development Dialogue (WFDD) and the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace, and World Affairs at Georgetown University, with support from the Luce Foundation and the University of Cambodia. Its aim was to take stock of the wide range of ongoing work by different organizations that are, in varying ways, inspired by religious faith, but more important, to explore the policy implications that emerge from their interactions with development organizations. The interview was conducted by telephone between Pakorn Lertsatienchai and Michael Bodakowski. Pakorn Lertsatienchai is a student and researcher working on socially engaged Buddhism in Thailand. He reflects in this interview on his own experience, and career shift, and on the emerging focus among Thailand's youth in working for social justice.

Can you tell us about your journey to your present position, and how you were inspired to do the work you are doing?

I had been an engineering student for the last 10 years, focusing only on the sciences. However, I recently became involved in student movements at my university that were criticizing the role of the university and its relationship with society. This was a turning point for me, and I changed my course of study from physical sciences to social science, and have focused on technology. I have done research on people suffering from the pollution caused by lead mining. I am motivated to alleviate this human suffering. It is important to have compassion as a complement to academic knowledge. Academic knowledge alone is not enough. We have to have compassion to help people develop and improve their condition. If not, we take the people as objects for research, which I look down upon.

Later on I got to know Sulak Sivaraksa, and it was through him that I began to learn more about religion.

How has Sulak Sivaraksa inspired your work?

The main area where Sulak has helped me to grow in is self realization. He taught me that one must bring the inner self out, along with compassion, and bring the heart and the head together to work with those that are suffering.

Can you please speak about the concept of socially engaged Buddhism and what it means to development work?

I think from my experience, especially from the five years of political conflict in Thailand, that many academics discuss how you can solve the problem; they talk about structural violence. However, I do not think they care much about the inner self. I think if we try to understand the inner self, we can understand more about the context in Thailand. The crucial part is that some academics who have received degrees abroad come out thinking critically, but they are only trying to explain themselves, not trying to solve or understand the problem. They have preconceptions about what is good and what is wrong. It is very important in the case of conflict to analyze and have self reflection about your preconceptions. This, for me, is the central premise of socially engaged Buddhism that I want to put forth, especially in the case of conflict in Thailand.

Can you please speak about your research and how it has enlightened your views on faith and development?

My research is on knowledge and knowledge production, and how knowledge is used to bring about positive change in society.

I did my research on the Karen people who have suffered from the lead mining in their region. The main point of development today is knowledge production. Knowledge production is at the basis of policy and the basis for action. I am specifically studying how to rehabilitate streams that are contaminated by the lead mining industry, and how to eliminate the suffering of the people. How we make use of the knowledge we have helps to dictate the level of suffering that the people will continue to endure. We call this a knowledge based society. It is important to construct knowledge, for knowledge is not neutral. The value of knowledge is how it contributes to relationships with other people, including compassion, and knowledge with social responsibility.

How does Buddhism lend itself to constructive collaboration with the overall development community?

From my experience, to engage more people we should focus on the individual level. In Thailand there is a trend that young people are becoming more engaged in their spirituality. I know some of my students don’t want to work with big corporations after graduation. Rather, they want to work with NGOs or with social movements. They also want to have a balance with their personal lives; they want some vacation, some retreat, and some spiritual training. In Thailand recently there are many courses on spiritual training and spiritual improvement for youth. There therefore needs to be a focus on youth at the individual level.

What are the largest challenges in doing development work in Thailand?

There is a policy and participation gap in Thailand. In Thailand there are many popular peoples’ movements. The Thai people want to be able to participate at the policy level. Nowadays they are organizing with academic institutions and with public society to build a collaborative policy on development. Especially in the case of development in industrial parks in Thailand, communities are joining together to make a new counter weight against mainstream policies that focus on solely investment, especially Japanese investments.

Can you speak more about these Thai peoples’ movements?

They are primarily from the low/lower middle class, and usually from outside Bangkok. The majority of them are the people who are affected by development challenges. I think that they want to challenge the mainstream ideas of development.

Nowadays they are effective in connecting to media. Through this means, they have been able to influence some parts of the middle class in Bangkok to support them; however, not too many of them. I think that the strategy to influence the people to support the movement should not be based around academic knowledge (though it is needed as the basis), but you want to be able to communicate to the people, to the masses. They should use compassion to “touch” the people. The case of Mabtapud industrial park, in the east of Thailand, represents the point that I mentioned earlier; the people have been negatively affected by modern industry for more than 20 years, and this was only recognized two or three years ago. The people there are trying to bring their narrative by television, to the masses. It is fortunate that we have PBS, Thai public broadcasting channel, that is not the commercial media, but public media aimed at bringing information to the masses. It has shown itself as a new way to for civil society to communicate. However, unfortunately, at least at this point I don’t think that they can influence the policy level.

And technology—what effect has this had on development?

That is a very interesting question. A friend of mine is actually researching this topic. In Thailand nowadays, many religious organizations use internet to publish and communicate to the masses. It has been very successful. In Thailand many monks are actually using Facebook, to connect to the people. I am also a fan of Facebook. It is a great way to share news and articles.

However, on the other hand, technology is also abused by some fundamentalist groups. These groups sometimes try to use the discourse that Buddhism in Thailand in is a fundamental element of Thai nationality. This is not true, and it creates divisions in Thai society. More specifically, two years ago, we had constitutional reform, and within this reform movement, a fundamentalist movement emerged; that group wanted to add Buddhism as a national identity of the Thai people. They tried to influence people using internet and TV. I do not agree, at all, because there is a large Muslim community in Thailand, and we must respect them. In this way, technology can be used to incite violence. This reality only displays how far these groups are not open minded to other groups in our society.

Faith is not often on the agenda of secular development agencies. Should faith play a growing role, and what should be added to the development agenda concerning the involvement of faith-inspired actors?

I think that is a tough question to answer. I think government agencies, the World Bank, and other international organizations have some faith, but they also have a mindset of determinism. These organizations think they can control with expert knowledge, and that they can manage everything in the society. To have faith though, you have to have faith in yourself, and also a faith and trust others. Inter-faith activities are important in this respect. Thailand’s government, for example, thinks Thailand is a mono-culture. They are experts from a scientific point of view, but they cannot understand the narrative or suffering of the people of different faiths or backgrounds. I think it is very difficult to bring these people to see the real situation; to bring these people to “touch” other people. Faith can come from within their heart. A humanistic point of view is necessary to let these organizations find and share their faith. To help this process, we should talk to them compassionately, and help them to see the real situation.

Where do you see Thailand in the next 20 years? Will religion play a growing role?

I am interested in youth and spiritual training, and I believe that in 20 years the situation of faith and development in Thailand will improve. I think that because we are in a political conflict, and we are growing and learning. Now, young people in Thailand cannot fully solve the social conflict. At the surface they might see it as political conflict, but the root cause of this conflict is social injustice. From my experience in teaching, I think that the young generation can understand more about social injustice in our society.

Now we have a global trend of environmentalists, working on global warming. Global warming can be a force that touches the hearts of today’s youth. They may be criticized that they cannot change the system, but I think in 20 years the youth will use their minds as an engine of change in society. I do not necessarily trust in the masses, but I do trust in small groups of people, especially from Thai youth. I am confident they can change the situation in Thailand. Today’s youth are trying to become spiritual entrepreneurs on global warming and other societal issues, working in small groups to motivate themselves.

For example, some of my friends recently established a new school for alternative learning, called “Open School.” They want to learn more about environmentalism and social justice, issues that are not taught about sufficiently in Thai schools. My friend also just opened a new house for the younger generation, to promote spirituality and social activism. In Thailand we have 20 or 30 of these homes. I think this trend will continue to be pushed by groups of small people, and the situation of faith and development will improve, I am quite confident.

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