Background: As part of the Peacebuilding Practitioners Interview Series, Jason Klocek interviewed Rev. Cosmas Gwagwe, who has served as the pastor of St. Paul Parish in Yei, Sudan for the last 13 years, which includes ministering in the bush during the civil war that ended in 2005. In this interview, Gwagwe shares his opinion on how reconciliation and development are interconnected in Sudan. He also discusses the role of the New Sudan Council of Churches in promoting grassroots reconciliation.
Rev. Gwagwe, can you first speak about your background and how these experiences have brought you to your current work?
First, I would like to say thank you for this opportunity to share my story with you today. My name is Cosmas Gwagwe, and I am the son of a man named Samuel Gwagwe. I have been a pastor of St. Paul Parish for 13 years, which means I was serving in the church during the war. I was out in the bush at that time ministering to the people.
I had always felt a calling to do ministry and I did a lot of work with the youth in the 1980s and 1990s. Then, from 1993 until 1996, I completed my training at the theological college. By 1996 I was ordained as a priest in the Episcopal Church of Sudan. I was still a very young man then, only 33 years old.
What role did the Episcopal Church of Sudan (ECS) play during the war?
During the war, the Episcopal Church of Sudan (ECS) in the Diocese of Yei were always serving in the Sudan People’s Liberation Army (SPLA) controlled areas of southern Sudan, which included Yei and in the surrounding areas. I served in the areas around Yei for seven years, particularly from 1997 when the SPLA took control over Yei and the area. At that time people began to return in small numbers, and we began the process of rebuilding church structures. But, of course, at that time there was still no peace agreement. The SPLA-controlled areas were still very, very rough places.
You see, the movement in the south wanted everyone to join in the cause. Due to this fact, civilians faced many problems. Sometimes the soldiers would even torture people and make their lives so uncomfortable that they would decide it was better to join the movement than stand outside of it. Many people also ran away to Uganda, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), or other neighboring countries.
Throughout these trials, the church played a vital role in promoting the welfare of the people. Church leaders met occasionally with the leaders of the movement and talked to them about how people needed to live together in the south and seek peace. The church even organized some conferences to promote dialog with the SPLA leaders. At these conferences, our church leaders pointed out the weaknesses of the movement, such as their poor treatment of people. They also encouraged the SPLA to continue the good work that they were doing to bring an end to the fighting.
Our bishops also worked with those in the Presbyterian and Catholic churches, as well as with other local churches. At one point, many bishops from different churches helped to open a dialogue directly with John Garang and challenged him to think about how peace could be achieved in our communities.
These meetings eventually forged a good relationship between SPLA and church leaders, and the SPLA recognized that the church had a good relationship with the people that could help bring an end to the war. Church leaders could encourage people to assist the SPLA by providing food they grew, not necessarily joining in the fighting.
So what I am saying is that the church helped to protect the people and bring peace from the grassroots level all the way up to the bishops. Peace has always been the goal of the church. Jesus was declared prince of peace. So we as Christians did not want to take up arms, and we encouraged our leaders to reach a peace.
Did church leaders play a large role in the signing of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA)?
When the CPA was being negotiated, the New Sudan Council of Churches (NSCC) played a very vital role, both in Nairobi where the council was formed and in the bush of Sudan. The NSCC created a forum with the leaders of the governments in the north and south and encouraged the local authorities to come together. The NSCC ran workshops on peace and reconciliation even at that time. These were very important because war confuses everything. Many times you didn’t really know where you are or what you are doing. But church leaders asked the important questions: How will we reconcile with our enemies? How can there be justice among us? How can we overcome tribalism? Our answer at that time was bit by bit by bit. We knew that many people hated others for what was done to them or hated themselves for what they had done. But, we also knew that we had to all work together and reform relationships amongst the people.
What was happening at the grassroots level in the churches?
The situation we faced during the war forced us, or geared us, towards one goal: the hope for peace. This was the central message in our preaching. During the war, so many people felt helpless to do anything that could improve their situation. But we preached about having hope that things would soon get better.
Our message of hope and peace concerned both internal and physical, or political, peace. You need this political peace to achieve internal peace. How can you feel at peace internally if there is so much violence and hatred surrounding you everyday?
In addition to the themes of hope and peace, we also talked about suffering. So many people were suffering. And these people who remained behind resented a great deal those who had left. But we preached on the benefits of suffering. From the Bible we know that those who suffer will achieve their reward. In the end, I think we helped the people stand firm in their faith, even in amidst of great suffering.
How did your message change after the signing of the CPA?
Now we focus on developing a holistic ministry. This means that we are concerned with both the spiritual and physical well-being of our people. With respect to the spiritual dimension we remain committed to getting people rooted in their faith. You know, during the war we saw that people’s faith was not always rooted in their hearts. When the very difficult times came some people turned away from their faith.
When it comes to the physical well-being of our people, we are encouraging people to develop themselves. We have many resources in southern Sudan, but during the war we relied so much on outside assistance. There were very few ways in which we could help ourselves during those times. But things have now changed. We need to start doing things for ourselves and stop relying so much on others. As such we usually conduct series of training in capacity building.
And it is amazing what our people have already accomplished. This church in which we are sitting now was just completed in 2007, built from donations by members of our congregation, who as you know have very little money. Now we are building a parish office building. As Christians we are working together to gather our resources and move forward.
What about your message or programs concerning reconciliation?
Reconciliation is a very big challenge for us, especially in the rural areas where a parish usually only contains one tribe. In Yei there are at least six major tribes, so we ask ourselves how we can help people to understand and interact with one another even when they are very separate in their parishes.
However, the real issue causing the most tension at the moment is that of returnees. People fled during the war for at least one of three reasons: either they had a family member or members killed and they ran away after that, or they had land stolen from them, or they themselves had committed some wrong. Now that these people are returning, there are many conflicts over these issues. How do you bring people who remained behind and people who fled together?
We have some specific ways, like counseling workshops, especially over land disputes, that bring people from each side together. We pray and open a dialogue, and somehow many people come to some sort of agreement. Maybe the person who took the land will pay some compensation and remain there, or maybe they will leave but will be given some time to find a new place to go.
All in all, I would say that in most things we are dong the ministry of reconciliation.
What are the major challenges concerning these reconciliation efforts?
One of the big issues, of course, is tribalism. Even the movement in the south during the war added to this problem because they would oppress some of the more minor tribes, and now these people have much hatred. It is not easy to convince people from these tribes to forgive, and it is not easy to bring people from different tribes together. Of course, reconciliation will not happen over night, but the church is working to reconcile these groups. It is gradual but taking place.
What is the relationship between reconciliation and development? Does one need to happen before the other?
No, these things go hand in hand. As I said before, for the church, development is the practical side of our ministry. The spiritual side is to strengthen the faith of our people. Both are important. Someone who is faithful is committed, and someone who is committed is eager to do what needs to be done in the community. And, what needs done now in our communities is much development. So you see, these things build on one another. Reconciliation brings peace into the torn apart communities and where there is peace, there will be freedom for development.
You cannot separate reconciliation and development, just like you can’t separate faith and practice. You can’t be faithful and not put that faith into practice; faith without action is dead faith. And as I mentioned before about our new church and soon to be built office building, this is all possible because people have faith. Faith leads us to act.
We also see the need in our community for more schools, so here we have a primary school for over 600 students. And this school is not only for Christians; it is not only for people of one tribe. This school is for everyone. Even our teachers come from many different tribes. This sort of development work is also reconciliation work. However, the facts remains that reconciliation comes first, then development follows.
What other projects do you have planned in your parish?
We have also recognized a need for more water sources. At the moment, there is only one major borehole in our area and hundreds of people use it. You see many small conflicts because of this limited resource. So we said, “Why don’t we do something about this?” Now we have plans to direct water from this source to several locations and minimize the number of people who have to use each source. This will also minimize the conflicts over water.
Another plan we have is to build a health clinic. Like our school, this will serve everyone, not just one tribe. Before we open it, we want to have some trainings on how to work with many different people so that it will run better. Here, too, you can see reconciliation happening.
Of course, we could use more support in our projects, especially in building better structures. Our congregation has already given much, but you have to remember that most of our people are not working and what little money they have they are saving to pay their children’s school fees. However after completing the office, our next priority will be the health center in which we will need help from other Christians and friends outside of southern Sudan.
Have you coordinated with any NGOs on these projects?
One NGO recently came out for a few weeks and built the latrines that we now use at the school. I was very surprised to see this, because most are not funding church school projects. I suppose this wasn’t technically a school project, so they were given permission. We find the problem to be that NGOs work through the government, and the government doesn’t support the building of private, church schools. So this is the challenge we are facing. But, we are not sitting down. We are trying to find ways to complete our work and find those who may be able to help.
Finally, what role do you see the churches playing in the near future?
Currently there is a freedom that the churches have never experienced before in southern Sudan. We are now free to operate without being oppressed. Just last week we did some outreach to spread the Gospel message. Before the CPA this was very, very hard to do. There were many places you could not go simply because it wasn’t safe. Now this has not changed in all places in southern Sudan, but here around Yei we have a new type of freedom and can do much. This is largely, I think, because of the CPA. Our role as a church is to advocate where the CPA is not maintained. In the near future the church will want to see that (a) corruption will come to an end; (b) reconciliation will exist; (c) unity will prevail amongst tribes; (d) there will be total freedom for people; and, as such, God’s blessing will rain on the people of Sudan.
Rev. Gwagwe, thank you very much for your time today.
First, I would like to say thank you for this opportunity to share my story with you today. My name is Cosmas Gwagwe, and I am the son of a man named Samuel Gwagwe. I have been a pastor of St. Paul Parish for 13 years, which means I was serving in the church during the war. I was out in the bush at that time ministering to the people.
I had always felt a calling to do ministry and I did a lot of work with the youth in the 1980s and 1990s. Then, from 1993 until 1996, I completed my training at the theological college. By 1996 I was ordained as a priest in the Episcopal Church of Sudan. I was still a very young man then, only 33 years old.
What role did the Episcopal Church of Sudan (ECS) play during the war?
During the war, the Episcopal Church of Sudan (ECS) in the Diocese of Yei were always serving in the Sudan People’s Liberation Army (SPLA) controlled areas of southern Sudan, which included Yei and in the surrounding areas. I served in the areas around Yei for seven years, particularly from 1997 when the SPLA took control over Yei and the area. At that time people began to return in small numbers, and we began the process of rebuilding church structures. But, of course, at that time there was still no peace agreement. The SPLA-controlled areas were still very, very rough places.
You see, the movement in the south wanted everyone to join in the cause. Due to this fact, civilians faced many problems. Sometimes the soldiers would even torture people and make their lives so uncomfortable that they would decide it was better to join the movement than stand outside of it. Many people also ran away to Uganda, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), or other neighboring countries.
Throughout these trials, the church played a vital role in promoting the welfare of the people. Church leaders met occasionally with the leaders of the movement and talked to them about how people needed to live together in the south and seek peace. The church even organized some conferences to promote dialog with the SPLA leaders. At these conferences, our church leaders pointed out the weaknesses of the movement, such as their poor treatment of people. They also encouraged the SPLA to continue the good work that they were doing to bring an end to the fighting.
Our bishops also worked with those in the Presbyterian and Catholic churches, as well as with other local churches. At one point, many bishops from different churches helped to open a dialogue directly with John Garang and challenged him to think about how peace could be achieved in our communities.
These meetings eventually forged a good relationship between SPLA and church leaders, and the SPLA recognized that the church had a good relationship with the people that could help bring an end to the war. Church leaders could encourage people to assist the SPLA by providing food they grew, not necessarily joining in the fighting.
So what I am saying is that the church helped to protect the people and bring peace from the grassroots level all the way up to the bishops. Peace has always been the goal of the church. Jesus was declared prince of peace. So we as Christians did not want to take up arms, and we encouraged our leaders to reach a peace.
Did church leaders play a large role in the signing of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA)?
When the CPA was being negotiated, the New Sudan Council of Churches (NSCC) played a very vital role, both in Nairobi where the council was formed and in the bush of Sudan. The NSCC created a forum with the leaders of the governments in the north and south and encouraged the local authorities to come together. The NSCC ran workshops on peace and reconciliation even at that time. These were very important because war confuses everything. Many times you didn’t really know where you are or what you are doing. But church leaders asked the important questions: How will we reconcile with our enemies? How can there be justice among us? How can we overcome tribalism? Our answer at that time was bit by bit by bit. We knew that many people hated others for what was done to them or hated themselves for what they had done. But, we also knew that we had to all work together and reform relationships amongst the people.
What was happening at the grassroots level in the churches?
The situation we faced during the war forced us, or geared us, towards one goal: the hope for peace. This was the central message in our preaching. During the war, so many people felt helpless to do anything that could improve their situation. But we preached about having hope that things would soon get better.
Our message of hope and peace concerned both internal and physical, or political, peace. You need this political peace to achieve internal peace. How can you feel at peace internally if there is so much violence and hatred surrounding you everyday?
In addition to the themes of hope and peace, we also talked about suffering. So many people were suffering. And these people who remained behind resented a great deal those who had left. But we preached on the benefits of suffering. From the Bible we know that those who suffer will achieve their reward. In the end, I think we helped the people stand firm in their faith, even in amidst of great suffering.
How did your message change after the signing of the CPA?
Now we focus on developing a holistic ministry. This means that we are concerned with both the spiritual and physical well-being of our people. With respect to the spiritual dimension we remain committed to getting people rooted in their faith. You know, during the war we saw that people’s faith was not always rooted in their hearts. When the very difficult times came some people turned away from their faith.
When it comes to the physical well-being of our people, we are encouraging people to develop themselves. We have many resources in southern Sudan, but during the war we relied so much on outside assistance. There were very few ways in which we could help ourselves during those times. But things have now changed. We need to start doing things for ourselves and stop relying so much on others. As such we usually conduct series of training in capacity building.
And it is amazing what our people have already accomplished. This church in which we are sitting now was just completed in 2007, built from donations by members of our congregation, who as you know have very little money. Now we are building a parish office building. As Christians we are working together to gather our resources and move forward.
What about your message or programs concerning reconciliation?
Reconciliation is a very big challenge for us, especially in the rural areas where a parish usually only contains one tribe. In Yei there are at least six major tribes, so we ask ourselves how we can help people to understand and interact with one another even when they are very separate in their parishes.
However, the real issue causing the most tension at the moment is that of returnees. People fled during the war for at least one of three reasons: either they had a family member or members killed and they ran away after that, or they had land stolen from them, or they themselves had committed some wrong. Now that these people are returning, there are many conflicts over these issues. How do you bring people who remained behind and people who fled together?
We have some specific ways, like counseling workshops, especially over land disputes, that bring people from each side together. We pray and open a dialogue, and somehow many people come to some sort of agreement. Maybe the person who took the land will pay some compensation and remain there, or maybe they will leave but will be given some time to find a new place to go.
All in all, I would say that in most things we are dong the ministry of reconciliation.
What are the major challenges concerning these reconciliation efforts?
One of the big issues, of course, is tribalism. Even the movement in the south during the war added to this problem because they would oppress some of the more minor tribes, and now these people have much hatred. It is not easy to convince people from these tribes to forgive, and it is not easy to bring people from different tribes together. Of course, reconciliation will not happen over night, but the church is working to reconcile these groups. It is gradual but taking place.
What is the relationship between reconciliation and development? Does one need to happen before the other?
No, these things go hand in hand. As I said before, for the church, development is the practical side of our ministry. The spiritual side is to strengthen the faith of our people. Both are important. Someone who is faithful is committed, and someone who is committed is eager to do what needs to be done in the community. And, what needs done now in our communities is much development. So you see, these things build on one another. Reconciliation brings peace into the torn apart communities and where there is peace, there will be freedom for development.
You cannot separate reconciliation and development, just like you can’t separate faith and practice. You can’t be faithful and not put that faith into practice; faith without action is dead faith. And as I mentioned before about our new church and soon to be built office building, this is all possible because people have faith. Faith leads us to act.
We also see the need in our community for more schools, so here we have a primary school for over 600 students. And this school is not only for Christians; it is not only for people of one tribe. This school is for everyone. Even our teachers come from many different tribes. This sort of development work is also reconciliation work. However, the facts remains that reconciliation comes first, then development follows.
What other projects do you have planned in your parish?
We have also recognized a need for more water sources. At the moment, there is only one major borehole in our area and hundreds of people use it. You see many small conflicts because of this limited resource. So we said, “Why don’t we do something about this?” Now we have plans to direct water from this source to several locations and minimize the number of people who have to use each source. This will also minimize the conflicts over water.
Another plan we have is to build a health clinic. Like our school, this will serve everyone, not just one tribe. Before we open it, we want to have some trainings on how to work with many different people so that it will run better. Here, too, you can see reconciliation happening.
Of course, we could use more support in our projects, especially in building better structures. Our congregation has already given much, but you have to remember that most of our people are not working and what little money they have they are saving to pay their children’s school fees. However after completing the office, our next priority will be the health center in which we will need help from other Christians and friends outside of southern Sudan.
Have you coordinated with any NGOs on these projects?
One NGO recently came out for a few weeks and built the latrines that we now use at the school. I was very surprised to see this, because most are not funding church school projects. I suppose this wasn’t technically a school project, so they were given permission. We find the problem to be that NGOs work through the government, and the government doesn’t support the building of private, church schools. So this is the challenge we are facing. But, we are not sitting down. We are trying to find ways to complete our work and find those who may be able to help.
Finally, what role do you see the churches playing in the near future?
Currently there is a freedom that the churches have never experienced before in southern Sudan. We are now free to operate without being oppressed. Just last week we did some outreach to spread the Gospel message. Before the CPA this was very, very hard to do. There were many places you could not go simply because it wasn’t safe. Now this has not changed in all places in southern Sudan, but here around Yei we have a new type of freedom and can do much. This is largely, I think, because of the CPA. Our role as a church is to advocate where the CPA is not maintained. In the near future the church will want to see that (a) corruption will come to an end; (b) reconciliation will exist; (c) unity will prevail amongst tribes; (d) there will be total freedom for people; and, as such, God’s blessing will rain on the people of Sudan.
Rev. Gwagwe, thank you very much for your time today.
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