Background: As part of the Peacebuilding Practitioners Interview Series, Dr. Eric Patterson interviewed Reverend Matt Esau, who was, until three years ago, the parish priest of the Church of the Province of South Africa in Mitchells Plain, Cape Town, and previously served as personal assistant to Archbishop Desmond Tutu. In this interview, Esau shares his opinion on why religious actors have been getting involved in reconciliatory and transitional activities.
[Initial Thoughts]
Firstly I wish to talk about Jacob Zuma’s inaugural speech of May 9. He talked of implementing the manifesto. This both refers to the African National Congress (ANC) manifesto and to the preamble to the Constitution. In particular the preamble to the Constitution which talks of the injustices of the past. Anyway, his speech was the remaking of Jacob Zuma. This was the moment when he talked as a president. This is a moment of renewal. The country has just come out of a bruising election campaign. This is an opportunity to rediscover that which binds us as a nation. This country is incredibly obsessed with race. This must change. We must change the discourse and the vocabulary. Being a South African must be a proud thing. One must be South African first and above all. We must move away from the apartheid distinctions of black and white. Even Zuma still talks of this. We should not seek conformity rather embrace our vibrant diversity. We need democracy which allows for dissent and accommodates this. What is most remarkable about Zuma’s speech and largely was not picked up on by the press was his comment that people “should be able to practice their faith.” Here in South Africa the Constitution recognizes faith communities. Religion has a role and an important one at that. Its role is in the defense of democracy. It should act as a check on the abuse of power.
Moreover, there is a renewed struggle today. Many recently voted against the ANC. This was an exercise of democratic right. This should send a message to the ANC. Disrespect for the law, abuse of the judicial system, and ignoring the constitution will not be tolerated. Thus, this was an expression of democracy, a way to deepen a fragile democratic regime.
What was the role of religion in the consolidation of the democracy in South Africa?
I am a theologian. South Africa since 1996 is a secular state. This is recognized in the new constitution. The preamble recognizes the Republic of South Africa came from a past of injustice. The apartheid government declared itself Christian. The majority of the apartheid ministers were in the Dutch Reformed Church. There was only one religion. The civil authorities controlled both the civil courts and the ecclesiastical matters. The apartheid government legislated the Christian church and ignored all other faiths.
The Constitution is based upon four factors: human dignity, non-racism, the value of the constitution, and universal suffrage. Section 15 of the Bill of Rights declares a freedom of religion. Enshrined in the constitution is a protection for FBOs and churches. These organizations are recognized by the state. They are often allowed to file for non-profit status and therefore receive tax breaks. There is a clear desire on the side of the state for religious groupings to deepen democracy.
Another important concept is backside theology. One must accept the limitations of our earthly bodily existence. Our religious duty is to deepen democracy and create a lasting peace. This world is God’s body: not the Christian body of Jesus Christ, but the world is God’s body. We must understand this and convert ourselves. Therefore politics and democracy in South Africa and assisting in South Africa’s development will focus on the means of those in the world. We cannot rest, as Zuma said, unless people have jobs, houses, and the people are laughing.
What is the greatest job of religious actors in the modern era?
In Khayelitsha now people are destroying the roads as they are fed up of waiting for basic amenities. The role of religion is to say: in the abstract this is the body of God put under pressure. Second, if we are to protect the world then we must do something. Religious actors on their own cannot do this. They need the government. But religious actors can interact on the side of the people. The can make sure their protests are heard. Third, we must dare to sit down with the government officials and make them do the right thing. People always pass the buck—political maneuvering. Religion should go to the politicians. They should tell the politicians that politics is not the answer. Practice is. We need to come up with novel solutions; we need interaction among religious groups on issues such as housing and electricity. All levels of government in South Africa recognize the role religious groupings must play. But the groups are not aware of their role. They need to ensure this world of God’s body is protected.
Why are the religious actors not involved more?
They are not organized. Each community talks separately of what they must do. The Muslims, the Hindus, etc There is a lack of interfaith work. No group starts with the premise all of us are here. All faiths talk of loving thy neighbor and supporting the destitute. So we need to organize interfaith work on many levels. This should also interact with the community.
So we need structural interfaith work?
Not structural. Structural reform is wrong. Interfaith work has happened a little but not structural in form. Once structure then becomes a question of he who pays the piper calls the tune. The poor are not helped. Religion can be bought off in this way. Structure is manipulated by politics. Each of these religious groupings has an individual structure that depends on membership fees, etc Thus they have tremendous power to speak on behalf of their members and to speak to the government. We must try and go on the route of something similar to critical engagement. Religious groupings, not politicians, should act. In fact these religious groupings would probably make the worst politicians. They should critically engage on deliverance of services. Create a thing—not a structure—must be more than conversations. It should not be diplomacy. There needs to be a way of working with all levels of government. This will enable people who have nothing to get stuff. They are so much part of God’s body. This sounds complex but it is not. We just need will. When I was chair of the Presidential Urban renewal Campaign in Mitchells Plain we met with a broad and representative set of organizations—from sports teams, to FBOs, to government officials.
The religious communities must all act together...work together on a broad but representative level.
Why has this not happened?
There are three main reasons: leadership, will, and a lack of understanding. During the struggle days—well, these are well documented and not really worth talking about. But these days produced a leadership clearly based in theology. The Muslims, for example, interact with other faiths because they were secure in their own faith. They knew who they were. The same goes for the Jews and the Christians. In the post-apartheid era a number of the leaders had not had the experience of working in a non-apartheid era. They did not know how to be positive. There was no engagement in terms of keeping the government to account without apartheid. It was the out-of-season stuff that they had problems with. They must be dependent on theological influence not political dependence. They need a leader to bring all these people together. Someone like the Institute for Justice and Reconciliation should facilitate this. COPE would not have happened if this had been apparent. We ned an extra-parliamentary group—outside of politics. We still need this. We need to stick out our necks and do this. Or at least infiltrate those organizations that are supposed to do this and have failed. Second, we need leadership in order to get the will that is necessary for this to work. People are too scared to push things too far. Third, there is a lack of appreciation for what in fact has happened in this country. We must rehabilitate like alcoholics: one day at a time. We should thank God at the end of each day. We must stop every day and see the progress that has been achieved. This includes Zuma’s speech. His inaugural speech was amazing. We can not rest until everyone is healed.
We need to look at South Africa within Africa. We have only had three free and fair elections. We need to thank God that the grass is growing. So it is all three of these factors. So much has been done there is only a little more to go.
What was the role of religious actors in the transition?
There is little to discuss on the transition. There is nothing new to discuss. All we must do is to deepen the democracy. Zuma’s speech and appointment of the cabinet was a start. South Africa’s transition does not make clear when the transition ends. When we can start deepening democracy and not transitioning. The discussion around the transition is well beaten, there is nothing to say. Now we must see the transition as over. We need to focus on how we build things and deepen democracy. This should come from within the government. We must deepen from the inside.
Firstly I wish to talk about Jacob Zuma’s inaugural speech of May 9. He talked of implementing the manifesto. This both refers to the African National Congress (ANC) manifesto and to the preamble to the Constitution. In particular the preamble to the Constitution which talks of the injustices of the past. Anyway, his speech was the remaking of Jacob Zuma. This was the moment when he talked as a president. This is a moment of renewal. The country has just come out of a bruising election campaign. This is an opportunity to rediscover that which binds us as a nation. This country is incredibly obsessed with race. This must change. We must change the discourse and the vocabulary. Being a South African must be a proud thing. One must be South African first and above all. We must move away from the apartheid distinctions of black and white. Even Zuma still talks of this. We should not seek conformity rather embrace our vibrant diversity. We need democracy which allows for dissent and accommodates this. What is most remarkable about Zuma’s speech and largely was not picked up on by the press was his comment that people “should be able to practice their faith.” Here in South Africa the Constitution recognizes faith communities. Religion has a role and an important one at that. Its role is in the defense of democracy. It should act as a check on the abuse of power.
Moreover, there is a renewed struggle today. Many recently voted against the ANC. This was an exercise of democratic right. This should send a message to the ANC. Disrespect for the law, abuse of the judicial system, and ignoring the constitution will not be tolerated. Thus, this was an expression of democracy, a way to deepen a fragile democratic regime.
What was the role of religion in the consolidation of the democracy in South Africa?
I am a theologian. South Africa since 1996 is a secular state. This is recognized in the new constitution. The preamble recognizes the Republic of South Africa came from a past of injustice. The apartheid government declared itself Christian. The majority of the apartheid ministers were in the Dutch Reformed Church. There was only one religion. The civil authorities controlled both the civil courts and the ecclesiastical matters. The apartheid government legislated the Christian church and ignored all other faiths.
The Constitution is based upon four factors: human dignity, non-racism, the value of the constitution, and universal suffrage. Section 15 of the Bill of Rights declares a freedom of religion. Enshrined in the constitution is a protection for FBOs and churches. These organizations are recognized by the state. They are often allowed to file for non-profit status and therefore receive tax breaks. There is a clear desire on the side of the state for religious groupings to deepen democracy.
Another important concept is backside theology. One must accept the limitations of our earthly bodily existence. Our religious duty is to deepen democracy and create a lasting peace. This world is God’s body: not the Christian body of Jesus Christ, but the world is God’s body. We must understand this and convert ourselves. Therefore politics and democracy in South Africa and assisting in South Africa’s development will focus on the means of those in the world. We cannot rest, as Zuma said, unless people have jobs, houses, and the people are laughing.
What is the greatest job of religious actors in the modern era?
In Khayelitsha now people are destroying the roads as they are fed up of waiting for basic amenities. The role of religion is to say: in the abstract this is the body of God put under pressure. Second, if we are to protect the world then we must do something. Religious actors on their own cannot do this. They need the government. But religious actors can interact on the side of the people. The can make sure their protests are heard. Third, we must dare to sit down with the government officials and make them do the right thing. People always pass the buck—political maneuvering. Religion should go to the politicians. They should tell the politicians that politics is not the answer. Practice is. We need to come up with novel solutions; we need interaction among religious groups on issues such as housing and electricity. All levels of government in South Africa recognize the role religious groupings must play. But the groups are not aware of their role. They need to ensure this world of God’s body is protected.
Why are the religious actors not involved more?
They are not organized. Each community talks separately of what they must do. The Muslims, the Hindus, etc There is a lack of interfaith work. No group starts with the premise all of us are here. All faiths talk of loving thy neighbor and supporting the destitute. So we need to organize interfaith work on many levels. This should also interact with the community.
So we need structural interfaith work?
Not structural. Structural reform is wrong. Interfaith work has happened a little but not structural in form. Once structure then becomes a question of he who pays the piper calls the tune. The poor are not helped. Religion can be bought off in this way. Structure is manipulated by politics. Each of these religious groupings has an individual structure that depends on membership fees, etc Thus they have tremendous power to speak on behalf of their members and to speak to the government. We must try and go on the route of something similar to critical engagement. Religious groupings, not politicians, should act. In fact these religious groupings would probably make the worst politicians. They should critically engage on deliverance of services. Create a thing—not a structure—must be more than conversations. It should not be diplomacy. There needs to be a way of working with all levels of government. This will enable people who have nothing to get stuff. They are so much part of God’s body. This sounds complex but it is not. We just need will. When I was chair of the Presidential Urban renewal Campaign in Mitchells Plain we met with a broad and representative set of organizations—from sports teams, to FBOs, to government officials.
The religious communities must all act together...work together on a broad but representative level.
Why has this not happened?
There are three main reasons: leadership, will, and a lack of understanding. During the struggle days—well, these are well documented and not really worth talking about. But these days produced a leadership clearly based in theology. The Muslims, for example, interact with other faiths because they were secure in their own faith. They knew who they were. The same goes for the Jews and the Christians. In the post-apartheid era a number of the leaders had not had the experience of working in a non-apartheid era. They did not know how to be positive. There was no engagement in terms of keeping the government to account without apartheid. It was the out-of-season stuff that they had problems with. They must be dependent on theological influence not political dependence. They need a leader to bring all these people together. Someone like the Institute for Justice and Reconciliation should facilitate this. COPE would not have happened if this had been apparent. We ned an extra-parliamentary group—outside of politics. We still need this. We need to stick out our necks and do this. Or at least infiltrate those organizations that are supposed to do this and have failed. Second, we need leadership in order to get the will that is necessary for this to work. People are too scared to push things too far. Third, there is a lack of appreciation for what in fact has happened in this country. We must rehabilitate like alcoholics: one day at a time. We should thank God at the end of each day. We must stop every day and see the progress that has been achieved. This includes Zuma’s speech. His inaugural speech was amazing. We can not rest until everyone is healed.
We need to look at South Africa within Africa. We have only had three free and fair elections. We need to thank God that the grass is growing. So it is all three of these factors. So much has been done there is only a little more to go.
What was the role of religious actors in the transition?
There is little to discuss on the transition. There is nothing new to discuss. All we must do is to deepen the democracy. Zuma’s speech and appointment of the cabinet was a start. South Africa’s transition does not make clear when the transition ends. When we can start deepening democracy and not transitioning. The discussion around the transition is well beaten, there is nothing to say. Now we must see the transition as over. We need to focus on how we build things and deepen democracy. This should come from within the government. We must deepen from the inside.
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