Berkley Center

Background: This discussion between the Venerable Dr. Phramaha Boonchuay Doojai and Katherine Marshall took place on October 23, 2012 in Tokyo, where both were participating in the Niwano Peace Prize International Selection committee. Dr. Doojai focused on how his groundbreaking work with interfaith networks on HIV and AIDS began and developed over the years. His base is currently the Buddhist College in Chiang Mai but he travels widely, part of a global network whose initial focus is HIV and AIDS but extends now to a wide range of social justice issues that include equal rights for women, migration issues, and the response to humanitarian crises. He stressed his commitment to interfaith approaches, which have yielded good results in Thailand and elsewhere. In the discussion he argues that it is a central element of the path that the Buddha traced to balance a focus on one’s self and on the community. Helping others and resolving disputes is a central responsibility for a monk. He reflects on contemporary issues including the roles of Buddhist nuns, work to improve women’s lives, addressing the trafficking of persons, and family planning.

How did you come to be a monk? And how did you come to be so involved in the university administration?

My birthplace is a very rural area, and at that time it was very difficult for us to get any higher education. One way to get an education was to enter the monkhood, though of course that would never be the only reason to do so. It was the tradition in most Buddhist families to have some member of the family become a Buddhist monk, to continue and sustain the religious work in the community. I became a monk when I was thirteen years old, after I had finished primary school (seven years at the time).

There were many traditions associated with the celebrations for someone who was becoming a monk. It was an exciting rite of passage. There was, for example, a story about a naga, a snake or dragon, who wanted to be ordained and changed his body into a human form. When the creature came to the ordination ceremony, the monks realized that he was not a real human being. So the monks looked carefully at anyone who came to be ordained to be sure they were not in fact a naga. The celebrations were great fun for a child, a two-day festival, where those being ordained were treated with great honor by people in the community and well beyond.

I went on to study in the temple, in the Buddhist system, studying Pali (the language of Therevada Buddhism), and focusing on the Dharma. My teacher urged me to continue my Pali studies and I essentially came to serve him as his secretary. But as it became clear that I could not continue my studies in that situation, I asked to move to another place, and thus went to the Buddhist university where I completed my B.A. in religion. I continued at the university, working in administration, but then was able to go to India, where I spent six years and completed first my M.A., M.Phil. and then Ph.D. in Buddhist studies, at the University of Delhi. I then returned to Chiang Mai, where again I worked in the university as an administrator (this was in 1998-99).

It was while I was in India that I became intensely involved in social and community work. Before that as a student I had been working with many friends and groups of students to serve people in remote areas. In northern Thailand we focused on remote areas, like the hill tribe areas. At that time it was very hard to go there because roads were bad and there was no public transportation. We had to hire a car and walk for long distances. We came to feel that it was our mission to do that work. That project we started carries on to this day, passed on from generation to generation of university students.

And while I was there in India, we also formed a kind of network, a group of Buddhist students who took on the challenge of helping one another, whether financial, spiritual, or moral. Students, especially Buddhists, came from different countries: Thailand, Korea, Sri Lanka, India, Vietnam, and many from around the region, to study at Delhi University. They studied many different subjects. The support our network provided did not involve not big amounts of money, but it was very helpful for them.

I also participated in many conferences while I was in Delhi, especially conferences organized by the Tibetan Buddhist community and organizations. There were many participants, from many countries, and it showed me that I had much to gain from such broadening experiences. I realized that I could learn many things from outside the university. More broadly I learned a great deal from India, its diverse cultures, and its music, especially its classical music. I had the chance to participate in very diverse cultural shows from many parts of world.

After 2000, I was back in Thailand, and there realized that we had many issues of injustice in Thailand that were indeed our concern. There were issues with the new constitution (before Taksin), and the direction of political reform. There were, and still are, many social issues on the table, and many groups that highlighted the problems of lack of rights for many people. There are ethnic groups that cannot get citizenship and there is no clear way for them to advance. Many people have no land, or rights to the land where they live and do agriculture. Many live in the forest, though by law they are not allowed to live there. But the people lived there before the act was implemented. To deal with these issues we became involved in demonstrations and strikes. These took place in Bangkok and in many other cities like Chiang Mai. The government tried to stop the demonstrations and there was often violence: beating, pushing the people away. There was no desire to talk or negotiate. They just wanted to get the people out of the area.

During that time we formed a network of Buddhist monks, whose focus was on the poor. We went to where the poor were, to greet them, to serve them, in the same way that people offer dana to the monks. Our groups of monks went to them, saying that we have to use nonviolent ways of demonstrating and protesting. We tried to show that the way was to talk, to look for understanding, and to wait for ways to do things positively. But on the other side, the government did not respond. We issued warning letters to the government, urging them not to use violence in seeking to solve the problem. Finally the government did begin to talk to the people, and took more into consideration the issues that the people faced.

And we started seeing more monks becoming involved. There were already monks who were working in community, but very few paid attention to what these monks were doing and there were very few contacts among them. We focused particularly on the monks from northern part of Thailand and we formed a network for the north. I happened to be selected as the general secretary of the network, through a process of consensus, and I was pleased to serve. We began to have many meetings and started projects to strengthen the community work that was being done together with the network itself. We found that there were many initiatives that were working on environmental issues, health care, on HIV and AIDS, on cultural promotion, drug problems, and many others. We tried to exchange ideas. We found that many had started working on just one issue but their scope broadened, and we, as a network, started doing more things to address issues in communities as a whole.

How did you become so involved in working with HIV and AIDS?

The Asian Interfaith Network grew out of the work on HIV and AIDS that our northern Thailand monks were doing. It developed into a national network, because HIV and AIDS is very widespread. And it became interfaith because we worked with whoever was in the community, no matter what their religion. There are very few monks in southern part of Thailand, and generally few Buddhists working in that part of the country. So we got together as interfaith partners. Over time working with different faith partners we were able to cover the whole country: working with Muslims in the south, Buddhists in the Center, and with Christian churches of many kinds especially in the northeast and north.

We shared among ourselves what we were doing and the needs and agreed, in 2003, to form an interfaith network. All participated in developing a concrete proposal and we worked together to get financial support from government and from international organizations like the Global Fund. We were able to access the Global Fund by 2005. At first we were working on care and support, but later began to work also on prevention. This interfaith network, working through religious networks, as religious organizations, was able to win continuing Global Fund support under Thailand’s continuing rounds. The significance is that the programs are viewed as successful and have demonstrated that they have achieved what they said they would do in the earlier rounds. We are very proud that because of the work of faith based organizations and the interfaith network, Thailand’s program was successful.

How does the interfaith network work?

The network has four organizations: Buddhist, Muslim, Protestant, and Catholic, and they come together in a central committee, which has five representatives from each of the groups. Someone is selected to be the chair overall and to represent each group. There is a secretariat, which works from an office. Most of the projects are quite small, and the subcommittees run the specific programs. Proposals for funding are put together by the committee. Above all the network has received financial support to do work for children, and this is especially concentrated in one province. The idea is to try to find a very small area, and then to define a program that is an area based effort to support children, for example in a sub-district.

What kinds of support are involved?

There are many forms, but the focus is on marginalized and vulnerable children. The system is set up at the community level, and it involves a continuing mechanism to support the children in need. It involves, typically, many sectors, including the religious sector, the government, civil society (meaning NGOs), groups of people who have formed, for example those living with HIV and youth groups, and those organized around hospitals and schools. The network identifies the different points where there are organizations, or committees, and defines a continuing mechanism that is adapted to the needs of the area and context of the locality. It draws on whatever resources are available. They view this as their duty and responsibility. In some areas it is the monks who lead, in others it is the churches or the mosques.

The network is also doing work against malaria, especially in the areas near Thailand and Myanmar. There they have to work with the pastors. Faith is what matters. But we work with whoever is there and it depends on the specific faith groups in the area. Religion is an important and continuing factor in the program. There is no way to work in these areas without dealing with the religious leaders and communities.

Over the years I have come to know most of the religious leaders who are involved and thus most of the Catholic and Protestant leaders, including the Bishops. We came to know each other, whether in interfaith meetings or technical groups in Thailand or at a symposium in Rome. I know the Catholic and Protestant hierarchies. I also know the authorities of Islam in Bangkok and we always involve them and invite them to participate in our events.

How do you link your network with your responsibilities at the university?

I continue as a lecturer in the Buddhist university, and have been there since I came back from India. There is considerable flexibility, and also an informal rotation system. Colleagues and friends go to India for their Masters, just as I did when my turn came. I have done considerable work in university administration, and have been director of the campus in Chiang Mai. The structure of the university has changed, by act of Parliament. One result was that there are many positions to fill. I was selected to be the principal, which is roughly equivalent to the dean. I was also the director of the Buddhist college in Chiang Mai for eight years (there are two Buddhist colleges there). After the retirement of the vice rector, who was selected as governor of the Chiang Mai Sangha, I was moved from the college administration to university campus and spent four years as vice rector. Then I decided, two years ago, to stop. It was a useful experience and there were benefits in working both with the activist network and university administration. It meant that I was exposed to different fields and put in contact with the Buddhist Sangha, which administers part of Thailand’s research fund. We got some support from them. The dual roles made it easier to get involved in other activities such as health promotion because the university and college are involved with health promotion funds.

The Buddhist studies system in Thailand is quite different today from what it was when I began my studies. Then there were very few lectures we could attend. We were the first batch of students there. The teachers were often absent. So we reflected on what to do and got together to establish forums where we discussed what we were taught and what we read. We had to take lots of initiative. We were very hungry and eager to learn.

Today the Buddhist college has around 1,000 students. Some are lay students, following subjects like political science, English, and Buddhist arts. There are graduate schools. The college is an integral part of the national university system. To be eligible to study in the graduate school, students must have completed certain subjects and requirements. They have to have completed the introduction to the Buddhist canon, Tipitaka.

How is your work linked to INEB, the International Network of Engaged Buddhists?

We work with them. We were part of the network at the start, and went to workshops and conferences that they organized. There are a variety of affiliated groups that have existed for some time, and that are still working. Many young Buddhist monks learn through their participation in these groups. The membership overlaps and we get ideas from each other. Many are exciting ideas. There is thus both cooperation and competition.

There are many questions around monks working in community development. These come from inside the monk administration, and also public questions. In our view (and my own) it is the duty of a monk to do something in the community, for the society. We have seen that happening in Myanmar and in most Therevada Buddhist countries. But there is also a view that social activities are not your job. That is especially true in Mahayana Buddhism.

But for us we see that we are following in the footsteps of the Buddha. He advised monks to go forth and work for the benefit of the many. Monks were to teach and advise the community. What is good for humanity is good for monks who are human beings. It is important to strike a balance between one’s own welfare, and benefits, and the welfare of others. One without the other cannot work. The priority is to take care of oneself but also benefit others. The Buddha supported those who considered the benefits to both and taught that to think only of benefits to oneself is selfish. Thinking of others may have an element of being a great being if it denies the self. Both are good but what is important is the balance. The Buddha gave many examples of this that we can follow. When his relatives were fighting about water, he went there and solved the problem. That was very political. When monks were sick he went to help them. Not taking care of a friend would be wrong. He asked his followers to bring water to them, change their clothes, give them medicines and care for them. They recovered. So taking care of sick monks is like taking care of the Buddha. It is a duty.

How does your network engage and work with women?

We have a lot of experience working with women, especially in our work on HIV and AIDS. There are many women who suffer because of this, and also whole communities. Often the monks are the only ones who reach out to people, bringing people who are ill and suffering to the temple. We help to form groups of women who work in the monastery and who do crafts and other things that allow them to earn money legitimately. Those efforts help a lot in empowering women to stand up and become, financially and morally, the axis point of the family. It is necessary to work at that level, in the community, person by person. In an area of central Thailand where there is a well-known temple, the approach was essentially to develop a community built around AIDS. The monks work plots of land and provide shelter and food to people with HIV and AIDS. Men and women come to live there. They support children so that they can study in school. Some of the institutions that exist to care for people with AIDS are too big and they take people away from their family. We do not believe in this approach, and forming special communities for AIDS victims is not our desire. You cannot stop the problem in this way. What is essential is to make the family, then the community, then the society aware of the problem and to fight the stigma and discrimination. And always the key to doing this is the women.

How serious is HIV in Thailand today?

After many years of work by the government, civil society, and interfaith networks, the efforts have been very effective, and the number of new cases is way down. But the numbers are stable, that is, they are still too high and they are not going down. There is a lot of HIV and AIDS in Burma and many come to Thailand. The level of knowledge about the disease is not very good.

Are Buddhist nuns part of your network?

The nuns have their own activities. Our network has fewer nuns but there are some. At the national level, during the Buddha Jyanti, the two thousand six hundreth anniversary of the enlightenment of the Buddha, nuns were part of the celebration as part of the country level network. The full ordination of women as full monks (bikkhuni) is still questioned but the nuns who wear white robes are well accepted, and quite active in activities.

How does your network approach the problem of trafficking?

It is very painful to see this happening but it is a difficult situation and very difficult to stop. The only way is to work with the religious community, the monks and others, to change the basic problems. For example, when I was in Myanmar to organize a workshop for Buddhist monks they spoke about their experience with trafficking but made clear that they did not know what to do about it. We discussed it in terms of engaged Buddhism, and agreed that it was something we needed to do something about, and we needed ideas that reflected it as a community problem. They have to see it not as an individual problem, of a girl or a father making a bad decision, but to take into consideration that this is a community problem, a problem for the society. It is very important to make them understand that. The kinds of action we take are to start savings groups and income activities so that an individual can save and have a place to find support. Then they can borrow from group to meet the expenses of daily life, and not have to send a daughter off to trafficking.

Where are you seeing most trafficking?

A lot from Myanmar, Cambodia, and China. We see very little from Laos.

What is the pattern today for the monkhood in Thailand?

The numbers are declining. Today there are only 60,000 novices, that is, newly ordained boys. That is a sharp decline from 30 years ago when there were 200,000. Some of these novices may leave. Some important changes are taking place. First, not many boys become monks as young children because they are expected to continue through secondary school (education is compulsory through grade nine). At that age (around 16) boys tend to be less interested in getting ordained, as they are enjoying life as a secular person. The plus is that monks today are more educated. Those who become monks tend to stay. Also families have fewer children and are less willing to see one son become a monk. One measure we are taking is to support schools for novices that are parallel to the public school system. They have a dual curriculum that is both secular and Buddhist. A student can move from one system or school to another without problem.

The temporary monks (rainy season monks) are monks only for a time and it tends to be shorter today than in the past. Now those numbers each year are about 300,000. That is roughly the same number as 20 to 30 years ago but the population of Thailand has increased.

How do you approach family planning?

We are not much involved, but we don’t oppose it.

What concerns are uppermost on your mind today?

I continue to focus on HIV and AIDS because those efforts to raise awareness must be sustained. This focus is actually, just the link to address other social issues. Internationally I am increasingly concerned about intolerance around religion in general and Buddhism in particular. It is worrying to see the burning of Buddhist temples in Bangladesh for example.

Mahachulalongkornrajavidyalaya University or MCU is one of two public Buddhist universities in Thailand. It is located at Wat Mahathat Yuwarajarangsarit Rajaworamahavihara in Bangkok. It was founded in 1887 by King Chulalongkorn with the purpose of establishing a major higher education institute for Buddhist monks, novices and laypeople with emphasis on Buddhist Studies as its main subjects. The university began offering classes in 1889. It adopted its current name in 1896.

By bills passed in 1997, both of Thailand's Buddhist universities, Mahachulalongkornrajavidyalaya University and Mahamakut Buddhist University, became public universities. MCU is organized into several academic units: Faculty of Buddhist Studies, Faculty of Education, Faculty of Humanities, Faculty of Social Sciences, International Programme, and Graduate school. Altogether the faculties offer 26 undergraduate programs, 10 master's programs, two doctoral programs, and other academic training. Two of its master's programs, Buddhist Studies and Philosophy, are internationally oriented and conducted in English. MCU additionally offers a Ph.D. in Buddhist Studies (in English). A new, larger Main Campus has recently been built in Wangnoi, Ayutthaya Province, just north of Bangkok. Classes have begun at the new location. The university hosts the Secretariat for the International Association of Buddhist Universities and is often one of the main organizers for the United Nations Day of Vesak Celebrations.

Mahamakut Buddhist University or MBU is the other of the two public Buddhist universities in Thailand. It was founded in 1893 as an educational institute for monks by King Chulalongkorn. The Thai government granted the university a status of public university in 1997, integrating MBU into the Thai higher education system. Mahamakut Buddhist University is composed of four academic faculties: Religion and Philosophy Faculty, Humanities Faculty, Social Sciences Faculty, and Education Faculty. The university also offers a teachers' training program as well as various academic services to the public. It began offering master's degree programs in 1987 and the Ph.D. program of Buddhist studies was established in 2005.

IBC (International Buddhist College) offers students the opportunity to experience a comprehensive and in-depth study of Buddhism from a non-sectarian point of view, while promoting knowledge and understanding of the different schools and traditions within Buddhism. The College currently offers three B.A. programs: Buddhist philosophy, Buddhist historical and cultural studies, and Pali and Sanskrit languages and literature, to both lay people and monastic students from all three of the major traditions of Buddhism: Therevada, Mahayana, and Vairayana. At the post-graduate level, it has certificate, M.A., and Ph.D. programs in Buddhist studies and an M.A. in early childhood education.