Background: As part of the Education and Social Justice Project, in June 2024, undergraduate student Michelle Hadebe (SFS’25) interviewed Keith, a founding coordinator for the Aspire EduHubs in Krakow, Poland. In this interview, Keith discusses the beginnings of the EduHubs, community building and corporate collaborations behind the EduHubs, and the impact the EduHubs have on students' lives.
Could you briefly describe your role at Aspire and your role with the education hub in partnership with Aspire?
Okay, if you allow me to speak, I'll start in a strange place. I've been living in Krakow in Poland for over 20 years, and I run a training company with my wife. I've been involved with Aspire and Aspire's predecessors from 15 years or so, and I could see the value of a networking association to the community, to the area. So, we joined as soon as Aspire was formed, but also, as well as that, I was helping Andrew Hallam, the general secretary, in side projects or in organizing things. I was always happy to lend a hand. When lockdown hit, or rather, after lockdown hit, through the COVID[-19] pandemic, and the war started in the Ukraine when Russia invaded the Ukraine, I noticed that there were a lot of children, who were just refugee children, who had nothing to do. They were sitting around in hotel lobbies all day or turfed out on the street. Their adult relatives were looking to register with various bodies or looking for work when they were allowed to work. They were also trying to network, to find their own way in a new country, and they were either having to drag the children with them or the children, as I said, were left to their own devices.
Because of my connections in Aspire, I knew that the companies had a lot of office space available with nothing happening, nothing going on, and I suggested then to Andrew, to the head of Aspire, that maybe we should bring this forward to the companies and just suggested them to see what happened, that we had a lot of children with nothing to do, and the offices have a lot of space and also a lot of people who are willing to help the refugee situation but didn't know how.
And I thought those were two great resources that we could put together. So, it was presented to the members, and they liked it. One company said that they would be happy to donate space, and the company said that they couldn't get space, but they'd be happy to donate some money.
Other companies donated both. Then, they started putting forward volunteers that would help in organizing it. And so, this is how the idea of the EduHub started, basically as a refuge, as somewhere that Ukrainian children could go, and feel safe, and feel that there was nothing demanded of them, and that they could, it was somewhere they had a reason to get up and get dressed in the morning. They had a reason to go out; they could come home and tell their mothers or their aunts what happened to them that day. And that was it. Then, I kind of had my own things to do, until about last year.
Last year, I managed to get to a position in my organization where I had a bit more free time. A lot of what I had been doing previously was either delegated to someone else or automated, and I was looking for a new challenge. And then a mutual friend told me that Andrew Hallam was looking for someone based in Krakow who would be happy to work within Aspire.
So, I'm actually only a member of the Aspire team from within since April this year. And actually, kind of ironically, I have been given the Eduhubs as a task. But, as I said, from the very conception, I have an interest in what was going on with the Eduhubs.
As soon as the ball was rolling, as soon as companies were interested in it, I let them get on with it. But as I said, in the last couple of months, I'm coming back in, and I'm finding out exactly how well or how poorly they have organized themselves in the intermittent months and years. So, my task now is to manage the Eduhubs from the perspective of the member companies.
So, again, some time ago, we asked, well, again, it was in chatting. We were chatting to Artur, who is the head of the Society of Jesus in Krakow. And he'd passed it on to the foundation.
Exactly. The foundation. We wanted to get someone involved who had a background in education, who knew when we say we have to organize something that will help develop the children, somebody who knows what that means, what that entails, and has the structures to be able to put the resources, to be able to put those structures in place.
So, we were delighted when Ignatianum came on. When I came back in April, then, I was explained that one of my duties was to work out how to work with Ignatianum and with the partners because everything happened so quickly. And because it's not exactly any port in a storm, but you know, all help is welcome.
So, whoever is offering this help, we first of all, we took the help, we accepted it, we thanked them, and then, we worked at how to integrate that into the system. So, it is very much a work in progress. It is very organic, but we have got to the stage now.
I think at the moment, in summer, we've got three centers going, but we've had five or six centers in the past. By the way, just as a digression, if you're going through this later, Michelle, and there's anything that you want more details on, then drop me a line, send me an email, and I'll go through the papers, I'll dig out whatever you need. So, about the same time that I came on for Aspire, a guy called Jarek, I can't remember his surname, but Jarek was nominated by the foundation to organize things from this perspective of the foundation.
And I had a couple of meetings with Jarek, we decided that that's how we would do it. So, if anybody comes to me and says, 'I need this, this, and this," then, I'll be able to say, "Here's the answer to this," or "That's a question for Jarek." And I can give Jarek a heads up that they will be asking about employment, or they will be asking about additional learning resources, or they will be asking about insurance details, etc.
So, the division now is that the foundation takes responsibility for organizing what happens in the center.
Okay.
So, when the children come to the center, there's somebody there, supplied, in inverted commas, supplied by the foundation. The facilitators are absolutely fantastic. Every time, every one of them, in every situation, they have gone beyond our expectations.
So, the facilitators themselves, they develop a program, or they have developed a program which they've gone through with the children. They make sure that the children are never bored, that they've got things to do. A lot of the children are having online lessons with their schools in Ukraine, and the facilitators, again, they make sure that they have access to the equipment, that they have quiet rooms, that they have time that they can study.
And they also put in a lot of work in researching: are there any free or subsidized tours in Krakow? Is there anywhere that they can take the children? They are really, really great in that respect.
So, they're supported by the foundation. I'm kind of the guy that the ladies complain to about the offices, if there's a problem with security getting into the buildings, or if they're not sure whether it will be open on a specific day. And likewise, the officers will come and complain to me that we had 50 people in the office last week (maximum can be 45). "Can you make sure this doesn't happen again?" "Yeah, yeah," exactly. Exactly.
So, the businesses, they know their spaces better than anyone else. They know what health and safety procedures are. They know how to make sure that, because some of these places, you're talking about banking centers that manage billions of dollars every day in transactions. They've got huge regulations imposed on them by the European Union, by other banking systems, etc.
Internally, they can't really just open their doors and let 20 13-year-olds run through every day. So, they have to make sure that there is a procedure in place for that. And the contact people from the companies will come to me and say, "We can't do this."
So, we need this to be able to do it, etc. One of the banks actually, there's a bank that we're working with. If anybody wants to visit, I make sure that they have been given 24 hour clearance so that they can have their names in the system, etc.
So, putting things very, again, very informally, I make sure that the companies are still happy to do what they're doing.
So, just to piggyback off of that, what's in it for the companies? So, you did mention that your background is in business. You said you and your wife run a business, and you are the business contact. So, when you're reaching out to businesses, what do they benefit from this kind of partnership?
If we want to speak cynically, then we can say that the businesses look better when they're doing it. Everybody can see that they're taking in children and that they're helping out. It is good PR.
But slightly less cynically, the truth is also that, I think, about 10% of Krakow's population now is Ukrainian as a direct result of the invasion. Unfortunately, they're not going to be going back soon. So, really, we all have to accept that they are long-term members of Krakow's population.
And, as such, the sooner and the better they are integrated into Krakow, the better Krakow will operate as an environment. And so, I think part of it is this, also, is the companies in doing this are sure that they know what's going on within the Ukrainian community. They know. They keep their finger on the pulse as far as the youth is going on.
And also, again, this could sound cynical, but I think it's just human nature, as well. If I'm running, let's say, a bank, again, if I'm running a bank, and I know that, in the future, I'll need to hire people with the relevant banking skills. Maybe, in one of these programs, I can introduce a module in banking practices, or maybe, for the older kids, I can offer an internship.
And, you know, it helps in this way. Ultimately, though, I do think that people just... It's in human nature to want to help. And when you have a site manager, or a center manager who says, "Look, we have the office space anyway. Let's give it to the kids who need it."
And in his company, they have people who are volunteering as well and saying, "Look, I'm happy to go for two or three hours of my day to help with this." Then, I think the most natural thing in the world is to praise that, and support it, and say, "Great, okay, so, if you want to help, here's how you can," or "You can't help that way, but, here's how you can help."
Rather than saying, "You know, it's not in our policy to do this," or "We're a bank; our job is about money." I just think it's the natural state of things for people to help each other.
Interesting. So then, in that sense, then, what would you say are, in your opinion, or in your observation, what aspect of this business and educational partnership is the most challenging for a lot of companies, or even for yourself as a coordinator, or as a business contact person, in a sense, coordinator is not the word, but as the contact person for the businesses?
Yeah, yeah. For me, well, for me, the biggest challenge is that I came into it, you know, I stepped off the boat, and I saw everything happening. And then, when I was introduced, everybody was told, "This is Keith, he's going to be taking over."
And then they said, "Right, we've got a new face." "I have a problem with this," "I have a problem with this," "I have a problem with this." And most of the time, it wasn't even my problem.
But, I came on board so quickly. Because of the nature of the beast, again, I came on board without any kind of six-week induction, or any kind of implementation policy. So, yeah, running or blocking.
So, a lot of it was that after my first meeting, I just organized a meeting with my boss. And, I said, "Okay, so here's a problem with this: Can you tell me which I'm supposed to deal with, and which I'm not supposed to deal with?"
Then, we entered that list. I said, "Okay, the things I'm supposed to deal with, how am I supposed to deal with them? Which problems do you want me to come back to, with which problems you never want to hear about again, and I've got free license?"
And then, "The ones that are not my responsibility. Whose responsibility are they, how I should be sold?" So there was a lot of, you can call it organizing or reorganizing. And I think it's normal in any organization where you have a change in management, especially again, as in something as organic as this, but like, you know, when it happened, we were dealing with probably in Krakow.
You know, you're talking about 200,000 refugees, and we had to find, first of all, we had to go out, we had to find the children. Again, there was also an issue with people who were afraid to announce or register that they were someone. And then, we had to, there was a trust issue, we had to show them that we were willing to.
So, there was really no time to sit down and say, "Okay, so what are we? What is our organic pattern going to look like? What is our chain of command going to look like? What is the procedure for decision making?"
So, I think maybe, we or I were fortunate that when I came in, I was able to, you know, when these things happen to me, it wasn't, you know, the boiling frog analogy. So, I didn't have that. I came in, in the middle of the pot of bubbling water, and I said, "Look, this is going on, this is no good, it's not sustainable, it's not healthy." And so that was, I'd say, that was the biggest challenge, was trying to support government, and we're still getting there.
You know, as well as this project, and this project is not our core activity. It's not the core activity of the Ignatianum Foundation; it's not the core activity of the partner companies. So, it's something that we all have to find time for in our schedules. And it means that regularly, people get frustrated and impatient.
But, again, it's the nature of the beast, it's something that we have to deal with. I don't know if that answers your question.
It does, it does. I just have to mention, I have a cold, so I'll be sneezing every three seconds. So, I think you touched on something that I was going to ask about, I was going to ask about the organizational structure. And I think you just mentioned that when this started, there was, you identified a need, there was a need, and you, Aspire and the foundation, kind of came up with this program very organically in response to a need. So, a lot of things kind of came up as you were going, if I understand you correctly.
Yes, I know. There were, I mean, when I came on, I was sent a management structure; I was sent a plan or an organizational flow. But, it was constructed artificially before the fact. And, of course, nobody stuck to it. So, it actually was quite confusing. I was going on, this is going on, why is he talking to me? Because according to the plan, he shouldn't have been talking to me. But he was, because that's natural. That's the kind of thing that was going on.
So, I was quite happy that that was going on at the same time, because both of us agreed, okay, so there is, there is a kind of a structure that has been designed that's not working. So, let's look at what's working. And we'll codify that instead.
So, then, my question would be more so around resources. How has...and if there is a need, right? Has there been a change in the kinds of resources that the EduHubs need from businesses? And what has been supplied across from when you started compared to now?
So, I think, if you get my question, I'm kind of hinting toward whether what businesses have, or what businesses offer. And I think, in the beginning, you mentioned space, money, or both. Has there been a change in that since 2021, when you started, when the war, when the invasion was more? It's still imminent, even today, but, I think there's been some time in between that. Has there been any change?
Like with any crisis, people have become numb to it. And, you know, when you start helping out, you're very, very excited. And then, as you go on, you realize, "Oh, my God, the children are still here. I've got nothing better to do," and so on. So, I think, I would say that I have to be careful with the language I use, because, again, nothing that we're doing is in the core activity of any of these companies. And we have to be grateful for what they've given us so far. But, you know, there are some companies who decided not to continue with their center. And they say that there are budgetary issues, they say there are compliance issues, etc. And they're very well, but if they were able to do it before, technically, they would be able to continue doing it. So, that's one thing. One of the challenges is making sure, or perhaps, keeping the engagement in the companies, keeping them aware of the ongoing need for such a place. And then, so that's a constant, I would say. There's been a change forced upon us, maybe, by the way that the government, the Polish government, is mandating how the refugees have to be treated. So, for example, there's the law.
Can you speak a little bit on that?
Yeah, so at the beginning of the last academic year, the law changed to allow Ukrainian children to be registered in Polish schools. So, a lot of Ukrainian children started going to Polish schools. The schools were duty-bound to support the children, and they did get support, but it was difficult. So, what happened then is the number of children who were attending the daytime sessions in the EduHubs dropped off immensely. And there was a growth in children coming after 4:00 p.m. who needed help with their Polish schoolwork, obviously. Now, there's a new law that has come in recently saying that from this September, all children in Poland, regardless of nationality or refugee status, have to go to a Polish school. So, we're going to be sitting around twiddling our thumbs from 9:00 in the morning until 1:00 or 2:00 in the afternoon. And then, after that, I think there's going to be a lot more need for after-study help. You know, you've got kids... I mean, the kids have been here for three years, and children, generally, their natural status is to learn anyway. But, you're still going to find kids who don't speak Polish so well and who have a problem in understanding the topics in a foreign language. And then, you're going to have the natural thing that not every kid is good at physics, not every kid is good at biology. And added to that, their situation that they're in, they're definitely going to need a lot more support in that. And it's something that we will be looking at over the summer when we have the free time.
So, what has been successful in the past in keeping the businesses that stayed? So, what on your end? I mean, of course, there are issues, I would imagine, that are outside of Aspire's control, such as organizational goals, if, in each fiscal year, a company or business decides our goals don't really align this year, or that there are some budget issues that you have no control over. But, from your end, what keeps them engaged? What do you do to keep them engaged?
Aspire is an association of these organizations. So, technically, the companies are the associations.
Oh, yes.
Now, we all know, of course, that the companies are the association, but we, on the management team, we tell them what to do, and what we're doing, and what's going on. So, we're the button men. But, I honestly do think that the companies that are the most engaged are the ones where the center managers are the most engaged. The head of Aon, for example, he just said, "It's a no-brainer. I mean, we've got the space and the kids need help. There's no reason why we shouldn't be doing it." And he has an executive assistant, and he told her that, "From now on, five hours a week or whatever is needed of your time will be delegated to helping out with this. Let me know if you need any help." So, it's very much top-down in the organizations. What's interesting, though, is that you can see that engagement also becomes top-down. So, I mean, the names don't mean anything, but when John says to Ola, "I think this is a great idea, we need to get on board, we need to help." And John comes to the meeting with Ola. And then Ola gets infected with the project. And then Ola is completely open about it. And she would be on a daily basis. Then, you know, the other big company is Euroclear, where Stefan is the head of Euroclear. And, you know, he's got quite a senior position in the company. And the bank had decided a couple of years back that they wanted to set aside some money to help Ukraine and refugees. And so, he went and argued our case. And then he just came back with the money, you know, he said, "Right, so, our organization wants to give you this money to help from these, these EduHubs." So, it is very much on, it depends on the person, on the single person.
Now, one could argue, and this is kind of, you know, maybe, I'm a bit naive in my second month in the organization, but I feel that my remit is to go to companies where I see that there is an opportunity. And it's my job to infect the next person in that company who will infect his assistant, who will help organize the event in the future. So, because it's an easy sell, to be honest, using that terrible corporate language, you know, you go, and you say, "Look, these kids need what you have; you don't need it." And then, you know, it's our job to make it as easy as possible, and tell them, "What do you need from us? How can we help you to make this a possibility?" So, we help create the vision, we share the vision. And then, we tell them, you know, it's, it sounds a bit like manipulation. But, if, you know, if I give you the idea of opening a hub, and you say, "Yeah, it's possible to open a hub," I tell you, "That's a great idea. What can I do to help you?" And then, suddenly, it's a different conversation. And the conversation is not about whether we can do it or not. They feel much more in control; they feel empowered. And I think that's part of it, as well. We're not coming, begging them; they take an effort back, and we're cooperating.
Sounds good. That sounds good. And I think this is more in terms of the companies that are engaged and the coordinators that are also engaged, how would you say, or how effective, and I think, here, you can use numbers, if you have them, but even anecdotal, even anecdotes are fine. But, I want to get your view on how effective the EduHub programs that have taken place so far have been. And I think it will be interesting to get your insight on this because you've been involved with EduHub for some time, but now, you're in it, or with the management team, for a few months. So, you're kind of seeing it, you can kind of zoom out and zoom in at the same time. So, with that microscopic lens and that tree and forest view, how effective do you measure the programs to have been, and to one, the programs, and then, overall, the partnership with the foundation, to have been?
Yeah. Putting very bluntly, it has been better. Of course, if I'm saying it's better, then the question is, how am I judging it? What are my metrics? What am I using to determine whether it's better or not? I am honestly of the belief that if one kid is happy to be there and has a better life for nothing, it makes it worth it.
