Background: As part of the Education and Social Justice Project, in June 2025, undergraduate student Stella Vance (C'26) interviewed José Navarro, a student at Loyola University Andalusia in Seville, Spain. In this interview, José discusses his experiences Identity and Mission courses at Loyola University Andalusia from the student perspective. This interview was conducted in Spanish and translated to English by Stella Vance.
So, I understand that you are a student in the class of–
In the three: Leadership, that is with José María, Catholic Social Thought, and Contextualizing Christianity and the Church, which I think you are researching.
Many! Also Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality
Also Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality. I took that one.
So, you’re in all four? And all of them are electives?
Yes, yes.
And what year are you in here at the university?
Yes, I'm in my fourth year, but it's my fifth within the university.
And what do you study here?
ESADE, College of Business Administration and Management. Business.
Business.
In Spanish, the acronym is ESADE, which is business administration.
I didn't know that you were in so many courses.
Yes, yes, that's why I wanted to come, because, I thought, surely it will help you that I have a more global vision of them.
Yes, this will be perfect, thank you. So, you’ve taken all of the Identity and Mission courses here. Why did you decide to take them all?
Okay, because, for some time now, I have been a more practicing Catholic Christian, then the fact of entering a world as complex as Christianity? I think the fact that someone is holding your hand from different points of view makes it much easier. In, practically, in all subjects. And also because maybe, in part, you can have prejudices, and I think that subjects like interreligious dialogue and spirituality that make you see other religions from another point of view makes you less dry. But mainly, the fact that Christianity is a topic that I like a lot and the fact that they accompany you is something that I think is very positive because you have people who can give you answers to your questions. So, mainly because of that.
I’m sure that you have a lot of business courses, so how do you have time to do all the electives?
Very good question, in the first semester I had eight subjects. Okay, we usually take five, so, this is quite a few more. Also, although it is true that there are some classes where you simply attend class, and you have to do few homework assignments, I was a bit short on time because I also do other things outside the university, and it was not super easy. But in terms of my classes at the university, they know how to organize it in a way where they do not coincide, and if you have a problem, then you simply would not have to go to that class, and that's it, and you leave the other that it coincides with.
I understand. And have you found anything different in your experience in the electives compared to the other courses at the university?
Yes, a lot. I would define it simply in two broad characteristics, although if you want, we will go deeper. My classes usually focus on the evaluation criteria they have. That is, preparing you to learn things for this exam. The objective is for you to learn a subject or learn a methodology, but many times, the student may not have time and only prepare to pass the subject, which you obviously learn, but it seems to me that the objective of these other subjects [the Identity and Mission courses], it's not so much the fact that you study some knowledge, but that you learn some knowledge. So, it would be the fact that you have to learn something through particular means, and the way to prove that you know it is through an exam.
But in these [Identity and Mission] subjects, it has a mission within it. The fact that it has a goal behind it, from the point of view of—for example, in Contextualizing Christianity and the Church with Ignacio [Andrío], he teaches you the history of the Bible, the Bible from different points of view—more rational point of view, a more miraculous point of view. For example the books are ordered because they have a mission of power more or less to interpret the Bible, to be able to do so, in Contextualizing Christianity and the Church. In Catholic Social Thought with Ángel [Viñas], what we see a lot is learning to interpret the catechism a little, what opinions the Church has outside of the Bible. What kind of doctrine do you have? In Leadership, well, yes, It is true that within the Identity and Mission, although José María [Valverde, S.J.] is a Jesuit, [the class] is kind of the one with the least Christianity, because he focuses a little more on acquiring knowledge through practice, not so much in an exam. Which is very good, but it is not so much about Christianity, it is the one that moves away a little. And lastly, for Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality, for me, it is the easiest subject, because…basically the point is to not have prejudices towards other religions because there can be things in common between different points of view. So, he brings us people who are Muslims, people who are Jewish, who can talk to us. And I think the objective of the class is that we break the barrier of prejudice. Then, I would tell you for Leadership and Social Change, by regulations, you have to acquire some knowledge and have tests, but there was a mission within each subject that went beyond that I learn certain things.
And you said that Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality is the second easiest. What is the easiest?
The easiest is Contextualizing Christianity and the Church with Ignacio, but it has been my favorite subject within my major and probably not only the one I have enjoyed the most, but one of the ones I have learned the most and has made sense beyond my life. That is, they have managed to transmit things to me outside of my life that awaken something of interest in me. I can really like economics, good, but not... How could I tell you? Maybe, your life mission is to do something similar to what you're doing. If you move inside because you are happy, then this type of subject for me, for example, does. He has taught it to me, and I've learned a lot. You don't have to do exams for people to learn, because the interest is not that they simply memorize, but that they learn.
How do they compare... It's hard because you've taken all the courses... but can you choose one to talk about, or choose all... How do the topics covered in the courses compare to the topics you talk about in your regular classes?
Okay. Yes, look, we will go course by course, and I will tell you.
That's perfect, but if you don't have time–
For me, it's good. If I can help you, it's perfect.
Thank you very much.
Okay, so, let's get started. Catholic Social Thought with Ángel. Ángel, for example, seems to me to be an excellent teacher, in the sense that he is always interested in you—knowing more. In addition, he is a person who is very intelligent and knows how to explain everything to you. Although it is true that there are opinions about everything within the Church, some people are more conservative, other people are more liberal, which would not be defined that way. Ángel, for example, has an ideology, a way of seeing it, obviously knowing much more than I do because he has a doctorate in that, but he doesn’t make you feel bad, just that you can learn and reflect. So, I like it because I can debate with him.
And I think that what has happened to me within the university is that I can have a debate with him, and with other teachers, I cannot. Within the university, if you discuss certain types of things with some professors, you can agree more, agree less. It has happened to me, especially with issues of the 2030 Agenda, that they silence you, they don't let you speak. But there are others: teachers who listen. You can debate with the professor even if you don't agree with something, obviously bearing in mind that he will know more than you because he has a Ph.D. But in other business administration subjects, it has happened to me that you cannot discuss certain things. I am not talking to you about theory or about an equation, but things that are opinional or subjective; how to face a problem. In subjects that have to do with this branch, like humanism, which are subjects that are taught in the first year, there are certain dogmas that are taught as true even though they are subjective to thought. How can something be done for A, for B, or for C? For this, he only takes part C as truth. And I want there to be much more of a spectrum here and at the university. I am going to teach you to think about how it is done here. Not like here, which often dries up because of the teacher's thinking. Then, it is not so much that he learns or that you learn to think, but that he tries to convince you of something or at least makes sure you do not convince others of something else that you think, regardless of whether I or he may be wrong. This is regarding Catholic Social Thought.
With Leadership and Social Change with José María, I've also had differences in how he sees things. But he knows how to transmit things. The subject also had a little more difficulty because Catholic Social Thought is the most difficult out of all because you have two exams, okay, it's the most complex. The second would surely be Leadership with José María, which is also a subject that teaches you to think a lot because you have to talk about leaders, or you have to go to do internships, help different companies. So, it gives you a vision of real life, which is very important because many times we always do things in writing, but we never see in real life the reality that I put myself in front of a problem, and I try to face it. That also seems very important to me.
Yes it's difficult because you have to interact in real life, not because of the content of the exams, is that right?
Yes.
Okay, I understand.
But with Leadership, for example, being a subject that is more abstract than other subjects, I manage to understand it because it puts you in contact with reality much more than the others. The next, Contextualizing Christianity and the Church with Ignacio Andrio, is the one I have told you that I have enjoyed the most. I have learned a lot. It's the easiest of all of my degree for me because you just have to make comments regarding what has been learned in class. But, well, it makes you be attentive in class because that's how you need to, you need that information to do it. And Nacho, I really like in Catholic Social Thought.
From my point of view, you always have two types of people coming to class: people who want to learn and people who simply come, or have to come. So, those who Nacho rewards are the people who want to learn. In the fact that the class is for you to learn and be able to debate, not so much to give some content and waste time on that. Then? Well. If there are people who want to waste time and take the test with artificial intelligence, the other person does it. But people who do want to learn or talk to him, well, he gets very involved, even after class he will let you go to eat with him if you want to ask questions. He works in the service of evangelization, and that's why he's always been very...In fact, Nacho is my spiritual guide.
And finally, which is Hecho Religioso, we may have less contact with this because there are only three classes, which are very few. And well, they give them, and from the point of view of how they give them, it is true that I see a little, relatedly, what classes and seminars are, not so much because of the subject matter but because of the way they deal with it. And this one is very easy, but we have to watch videos and read very long synthesis documents, which is very good because it is a way to evaluate yourself. But the soul of the subject is not to be prejudiced towards other people of Muslim origin or of Jewish religion because within them, there can also be truth, and we can have things in common, and you simply have to focus on understanding each other and respecting each other and not seeing each other as if we were enemies. That is the point of view, that.
As in all religions, well, all over the world, the best and the worst people who use religion as a way to get closer or as a way of attacking, that has existed in all history, always, but they want us to see the other side from which we are not sitting. That would be what I see the as the general ideas in the four subjects.
Good, and Hecho religioso is the only thing that is only gathered, like, three times in the weeks. The others are on a normal schedule or, like, four times each week, or...
Yes, yes, four hours a week, four hours a week. Well, leadership effect, leadership are, yes, four hours too, but they're together? Yes.
Are together. And have you taken all of them in this last semester? Or during which part of your time in the university?
In this year. Liderazgo y Acontecimiento Cristiano in the first semester [September to December], and Pensamiento Social Cristiano y Hecho Religioso in the second [February to June].
You've said a little bit about class structure, but the teaching style in these courses, how does this aspect of the courses compare with the other class that you have taken?
With the other subjects of my major? Very different because the approach, I'm telling you, the way to deal with it is, “I want you to learn, I want to pass on to you, I want you to learn to think, and I want to get closer to your culture.” I think this is because of the fact that they are subjects that are taught by Christians, or they are based on Christianity. It is much more vocational than, maybe, another type of subject. It is also easier to transmit within “what is religion” or “leadership,” than within “what is numbers, accounting.” They are much closer (mucho mas cercana) within what they are teaching. That is, I can sit down with someone to talk: “Hey, let's debate, why do you think this?” or to divide: "Where does that part come from?" Here [in the other classes], not so much, really, because the teachers are much more distant. Also, we are more students, I would tell you.
But one thing that I also, I think is very important, and seems important to the university, the subject are easy to pass. They can focus on that, on passing the subjects. Like here (the other subjects) there are subjects, many, that are not easy to pass. The professors are evaluated at the end of the year with respect to grades, that we can give both students and the average grades that they have gotten on average. And that, then, the fact that although they evaluate it in the same way, but that it is easier, I think it also makes them closer than here. Here, there are much more challenges in that sense because they have to meet some objectives in a desirous way [getting students to get a certain grade], because if they do not have problems, it endangers their work.
Yes. And are they closer through their style, like to debate, discuss, ask students in a personal way?
Yes.
And I don't know if you can remember other ways that teachers have created a more intimate or vulnerable environment with the students?
Intimate. How do you create closeness? Well, look, first, I think you show yourself as you are, in the sense of: "I could come here to play a role or tell you what I think is right, but I'm just being like the way I am, being honest with you." So, the fact of transmitting what is “closeness” (cercania) is precisely for that because they show themselves as they are, because they live by example, because they really want to help you, because they are interested in you learning, because they reward meritocracy in the sense that “I want to [be] involved.” I ask you, “How cool, I love this topic.” We going to talk with other people. Maybe you say, "Good, you will pass this subject, you will not learn as much, but I do not bother you, but I reward those who want to learn in the other subjects." If they are not so close to you, there is not so much debate, it is much more: the teacher talks about doing some exercises, and this is much more arranged.
Here, it is somewhat freer. I'll give you an example, for example in...Yes, it has happened to me in all of them, it has happened to me in all subjects, except Leadership, because Leadership is a little more regulated. This is what happens in every class. Yes, for example, we had to do “A” in this class, but when subject “B” comes up, everyone is interested. The topic B, the wave of topic B, goes after we talk about the topic, but they are flexible in that sense because maybe, there are current issues that you are interested in talking about, and it is much more worthwhile. Let's see if...And they are always predisposed for you, so that you can talk to them too, but in a way, I tell you, because they want them to pass. It's perfect, yes, but they want it because they want it. They are close in the sense that, I could be talking to a friend of mine, taking into account that he is a teacher, but he really and heartily intends to be able to teach. This is true in some other subjects as well, but they kind of don't know, it's a good question: “What is closeness?” but... Yes, in the interest, it can also be that I am biased in the sense that it's a topic that interests me a lot than maybe, accounting, right? But even so, I have heard it from other people, the fact that I'm interested in the subjects. Well, hey, I really like these, I notice how cercano they are and that helps them to transmit [the class]. Also, I’m smiling, that seems like something that is little, or that it's a secret, but not smiling, smiling.
Yes, but then, that's it?
What is often taken for granted? A teacher has to be serious. Because I have to maintain an ideological code. And a distance, but many times, you can teach how to bring through. One example: Jesus was with the disciples, he was always close to her. So, keeping a distance, well, it makes you feel safer as a teacher, but maybe, it doesn't make you get involved as much or arouse concerns within a student. The spirit of help, I would also say, is something else, because it seems to me that one of the most important messages of Jesus is the fact that I put myself at your service. I want to serve you, the last one will enter the kingdom of heaven. So, they are always at your service. How can I help you in my life mission? Well, it's here or in more things, but I know that through what is a message from Christ. And, can I help you? And that seems to me to change it completely, because it is not simply: "I have to teach a subject, for example: I am an economist, I like research, but I don't like classes." So, am I forced to take classes? Or the other way around: I don't like research, but I like the classes. It’s like, one thing along with another, and I have to do both, but here, because it's so vocational, the fact that you want to be a representation of what Jesus on earth makes you really willing to help anyone in any way. Yes. That’s the idea I have, it’s difficult to condense it.
Yes, it's perfect, thank you very much. And regarding the topics, there was some topic in any class that felt particularly difficult to discuss or learn?
Yes, I remember. I’m going to give you two examples: In Hecho Religioso, and first, with Ángel in Pensamiento Social Cristiano. [In Pensamiento] about Christian opinions, about homosexuality, and that kind, since they are such controversial opinions that you can have legal problems with someone, if you give your opinion or your interpretation of sacred scripture, you are limited to saying what is put in the social doctrine of the Church. It's like, I don’t see something wrong here, I don’t have a problem; I understand it because it's an issue that everyone can have their opinion about. But yes, if you express yourself, you normally have to accept that regardless of whether it's wrong or good, you may have problems. It seems to me that this is not the intention. And with respect to Hecho Religioso, not so much because of the teacher, but rather by the students, in the sense that I know there are people in class that continue to have prejudices in the sense—and I'm the first one who has them—but it is true that it helps you, the fact of, to not see the other as the enemy in communism, the businessman in the enemy, fascism, the different, the enemy, because in another type of people who are more leftist, the fascist is the enemy. People who are more conservative are also different, as always, the easy thing is to blame someone else when the problems are more complex. That there will be Jewish, Muslims, as bad Christians, who go against others,
But the trickiest issues are that, I think, because of how—and this seems important to me—because of how certain topics have been treated in the other subjects within the university, here in the fourth grade, you have learned the lesson that many times, it is better not to give your opinion on certain topics. I do it, and I don't, I care about expressing myself, and I had fewer grades in other subjects, probably here, for expressing my opinion. It seems to me that defending what he thinks is something good, beautiful, and worthwhile, but there are people who prefer the grade, so they don’t do it. Regardless, that, within Christian subjects, that may be true, but if it has happened [they’ve not been supposed to share], they do not do it in other electives. I think that happens a lot, and it makes it difficult because of how certain issues are experienced within the university. So, they don't let themselves talk.
I think that it should be at the university, the cult, the center of wisdom, and that must every time, all kinds of debate or discussion, because we can reach common ground. If there is no debate, the only thing there is fighting outside of it and hatred. So, that is why I think that attitude should not be. It should not be...well, the fact of not letting people talk, then are the two problems that I would tell you to see within taboo topics, because topics that are current but that perhaps the teacher is limited to a little more than simply giving his opinion. Not in Leadership and not in Christian Events, because one is about leadership and another is about the history of the Bible a little, but yes, on these two issues, that is, on these two aspects, yes.
Mhm. Yes. Yes, with people with certain attitudes are a little bit more...
Yes, no. Yes, Yes, it is one more issue complex or difficult to deal with as you have said. Yes, so in this case, what homosexuality is, or even, I would also tell you, sexual issues within the catechism. And here, in basically all the subjects, there are people who do not give their opinion because they think that they are going to be punished or something.
Okay. And was there a topic that was very easy or interesting for you in the cases? Obviously, you are very interested in the topics, but an example of class or moments that catch your attention or interest you a lot?
A moment or theme?
Either, but yes, a material that you liked a lot.
Yes, okay, I think one of the most important things, now, in my life, the fact of learning to become a Catholic or a good Christian, the fact of being able to learn more about the Bible. Everything that is the subject of the Bible and having someone explain it to you. Because, of course, you read the Bible, and you say, "Well, how do I interpret it?" but let someone explain it to you who knows how to interpret it, make you understand many things that you, otherwise, might not have seen in them then. Everything that is the "how" or look at... an example from Acontecimiento Cristiano: He explains all the things in the Bible to you, all the tribes, some of the most important readings, for example, about Genesis. With Nacho, within Christian Social Thought, it also happens that because, as Ángel, he is very formed, “And why does this come in the catechism?” “Well, look, this is based on this part of the Bible or by this part of the tradition, and it comes from a thought and...” Or “Why does the Church think this about this?” "Well, look, it doesn't really think this about this, but it comes from here." So, all that are subjects in the Bible are people who control their subject matter very well and very well.
So, if you go to one of these subjects because you are really interested in the Christian theme or leadership, someone who knows how to tell you the case of leadership, where this idea comes from or why this leadership in this way. And, with Christian themes, this idea or this thought comes from here, or this from here is explained in this way. I know they're more general ideas, but basically, I would tell you that the fact of having a...is that it is interesting because the fact of you, having a person you can ask about topics that interest you and who is trained, is not something that you have in your day-to-day. So, I think that this is something that arouses interest. Also, social debates, for example, something that arouses a lot of interest: I have, it is under discussion within the Church by some people, but it is condemned, for example, what economic liberalism is as a sin, but there are other types of positions more within what is more liberal, within the liberal, that still has no opinion been given. So, I'm kind of looking for how I can reconcile the two things. So, I like all those issues, or political issues, or current issues a lot because I don't mind giving my opinion.
Yes.
I would tell you that.
Thank you, and do you think...you’ve said a little bit about the importance of learning more about faith and how to live Christianly in your life. Have you had personal experiences that you think have given you an interest in these themes and the classes of Identity and Mission here before taking them?
Yes, yes, yes. Something has happened to me before choosing these classes that has made me go there. Yes, I have always been, my family, we have been Catholics by birth. My mother is a practicing Catholic, but before that, no one in my family, neither my two brothers nor my father were practicing Catholics. Today, for example, my sister and I are practicing Catholics with my mother. And I did have an experience where I had one really bad year, and I didn't know what, how I felt, or why it was coming. So, I had a lot, a lot of problems, a lot of anxiety, no, I didn't know where to go. I tried meditation, I tried other types of cultures and religions, and I even asked myself, at the moment when you are in search, and you have so many doubts, you are talking about anything, I mean, hey, even the same if the Christian religion is the same lie as its counterpart, as for example, the devil is in Freemasonry—is it that bad? Or it's either a polite being or something, and...I remember that, I even read the satanic commandments, but well, I tell you, they are things that I did, whether subjectively by my mind or real things, they affected me a lot, and I felt bad, emotionally, I felt very anxious. I felt my emotions blocked. Then? Well, there comes a point at a time when drawing near to God, to his word, talking to him and praying. I'm feeling better. I feel listened to, I feel loved, I feel understood, I feel accompanied, and he gives me, even if it is not answer, as active as you and I talk, but I see that it is giving me answers about certain problems that I have survived and certain solutions. Yes, in one of the biggest questions I had at that moment in my life, where I didn't know if I felt in the right place, right? Within a group.
I never shared Christian things because, you know, there were people who weren't Christians, and who would like you. It could bother. But I always told a friend of mine in the group that I was so glad she was there because being a Christian, I could share this kind of thing with her, and the next day, in a training that we had, which was a training, well, very cool, but it ended with an emotional part so that you can anchor what are the things learned within an emotion, and it stays with you. But I remember that I was excited, crying, and when I gave my friend a hug I kind of saw the—I don't know if you believe or not, but it sounds strange, but when you are excited crying, you just feel the emotion. You see ***** and...Like a village of God, how good, that he approached us, and gave us a hug. And from that moment on, I had a much more active search, not even my way of saying if God exists, if there is an absolute truth. If that absolute truth exists, I think it is in the Catholic Church. So, within what is said here, whether you understand it or not, it has to be true, although I can take pleasure in things. But I try to make it compatible, how I do it. Then, from that point, I have had a much more active search, and that has made me choose the four subjects that I could have chosen two for, being easy, perfect, but the other two maybe aren't so, not having chosen them if it wasn’t for learning. That's why I took them all.
Yes, that makes sense. And was there something covered in the classes that you felt personally connected with when you were learning during the courses.
I feel emotionally connected.
A way to personally connect with the material.
Yes, for example, the reflective question of—I am very much that I like the depth and the introspection to ask the reflective questions that were asked within, with Ignacio with Nacho, in Christian Events. I liked it a lot. I used to do tests because people did it with this GPT, but the reflective questions. He would then give you feedback. So, it was very cool to be able to answer a question about the topic of the class in which you can put your personal vision, and reflect, and then, he helps you with feedback. That is not something because he has to do, because it is work, as well. But hey, he did it because he really wanted to help us. Or the question was about me feeling connected to my emotions or with God? I ask you, I don't know.
Repeat, please. The specific question repeat it to me because...
Yes, was there something covered in class that you felt very connected to personally?
Yes, above all, topics that have to do with spirituality, reflection on yourself and also political or social issues, because they are topics that I like very much.
Can you describe that a little? I want to learn a little more about whether these phases have changed the way you navigate the world and. If you were, I don't know, if you can describe a little bit, before compared to after you have taken all the courses? I understand that there are many—
I will try. We’ll go one by one. I would say, for sure, yes, although, in the end I think the irrational mind, or the subconscious mind, you have ideas or beliefs anchored, that if I possessed it before, if I continue to possess it, because in the end, if it is something that you change with a change of belief because you continue to achieve it, or you do not do it actively, I think it is still there, or you see it with prejudice because it is how you have always lived, but if you change, you have changed things.
For example, in Acontecimiento Christiano, the fact of being careful with how to interpret the Bible, because there are things you could get wrong. In Christian Social Thought, yes, also the fact that interpreting it can be seen from different points of view. And it's like there's one person who says one thing, another person says another. So, well, there is a great absolute with perfect God, but this is made by humans, and it may contain error. Not so much to love myself, but to try to look beyond an ideological line. That is, the one I like, he says, "But hey, maybe the one I don't like, it also says this and also has points of truth." So, I have to listen to it, too.
With Leadership, let's say that I have worked a lot on leadership for other aspects, especially communicatively, I worked a lot. An example: The way Obama and Donald Trump communicate are very different; each one has their audience and adapts in the end to the type of person they are. Obama is very good, technically, at communicating because he knows how to have six to seven things in mind at the same time, and Donald Trump is, for example, a person very characteristic in his way of doing things. So, each one transmits in different ways. And I, for example, leadership, the way I have to lead, or what I think leadership is like—Not correct—but the one I like, if I have some people who are very present in my life, who are people who train me outside the university. So, although, well, I debate and learn things. Since I have a very formed opinion, that is, I don't come at all from scratch, if I've chosen the fact of simply, "Hey, I like this type of leadership," then I want to train there because here, they give you, like, all types of leadership, or rather, theories about leadership, but not so much in theory, not so much in practice, if in the form of a company. But in another way of seeing it, not so much. Also, I think that the subject of ethics is only used if you really want to take advantage of it, if you can simply do things, and that's it.
Well, I've already told you about three, and I'm left with Hecho y Dialogo Religioso. It makes me less prejudiced towards other people because I think about: "How have I been formed?" "Where do I come from?" or "Where have I learned?" or "What kind of people have I listened to?" You could be sitting a little in hatred, I would tell you. If I don't open up to a certain type of collective, I tell you that it's the easy thing, that later, there will be people who speak it in one way and other people who don’t. But I have been sitting, although now, it makes me rethink the fact of...me against you, but you and me, facing an idea that all the people who do take it, me against you. Well, but I am one of those people who, within what is the Jesuit idea of Tito puente, because I want to understand you. I think it's fine, as long as I don't value less certain types of dogmas that are given by the hundreds, because I get closer to the other, but I don’t have to hate it because I'm different. So, now, I'm mostly paying attention to that, since, because of my belief, I often feel something emotionally, but I rationally strive to say: “Listen, this may not have to be the case.” So, it seems to me that this is the fundamental idea of that course in certain people, if possible. In the other class, if you listen, for example, me, who is interested in listening, even to see what different ones work, it depends a little on what each person wants to do.
But in Hecho Religioso, above all, I would say that it is the one that—there has been a change, perhaps, not so radical, because the other one interests me much more, but since they are conflicting opinions, I make an extra effort to see different opinions.
Yes, and when you consider those changes, can you describe a little bit about your perspective on the relationship between education in school, in the university and your identity?
That is, how the school has shaped me, has made me a certain way or about what I think about...
Your experience with the relationship between education and your identity formation, if you think there is one.
Eh, in the college, well, in the end, there are many things that you don't remember, but they already give you what they are, well, come up with beliefs that form you from a young age. So, yes, I think that, for example, great care should be taken there about talking, not talking. In my personal experience, I don't remember, but it is true that they give you certain dogmas that really do not have to be true as such. So, I think parents should have a more central opinion within what is given. For example, in the stage that is so obligatory that it is the university, in the institute, and in the college.
At school, I would say that I am always a person who has liked to ask a lot, to understand the "why" of things. For example, it bothered a lot when someone was making someone feel stupid with a question, like I could have been made to feel silly for asking a question. Or simply that the teachers gave me an argument of authority. In other words, "It is done like this, period." I do it perfectly because, in the teacher, I simply want to understand you, but I don't. I don't do it badly. So, many people did it. Within my life, I do always try to understand the "why" of things, don't try to make someone stupid with a question that feels silly. And I also value the university a lot, compared to what other stages in high school and public schools, because you are treated like an adult. And that seems, to me, it is fundamental for the development of a person. I think that this stage could start earlier, but I treat you with respect from the understanding.
And at Loyola, 95% of the experiences that I've had are if I have a problem with a teacher, it’s not a problem, but something we disagree about. They treat me like an adult and they explain it to me, I try to understand, and it’s not like it offends them a lot. I value that very much: the fact that they give you understanding. My training as a person has also made me see that you can't always do things in the same way as you can, both at the university and at the institute. Because, of course, here, I simply prepare for an exam and, according to the grade, I go to class. But here, they do interviews, something that I liked a lot, for example, from a former vice-rector of Paco is that when he went to interview someone—and it's a silly detail, but you'll love the importance—he asked the person at the door, to the person in charge of the entrance, if he had said good afternoon or good morning. Of course, then, that human version of "Hey, this person I want to teach at Loyola has education, looks for a person, regardless of, maybe, the rank they have." That seems to me to be very important. I don't know if it's done anymore because that man is not at the university, but it seems to me that the selection of personnel is important because regardless of everything, they also want to help. You are treated as an adult, you can enjoy the classes, and, clearly, as a person. It has made me learn a lot of things, as well. More specifically, do you have any questions about something I said more specifically? Because if not, of course.
What do you think that, throughout your experience at the university, what has had the greatest impact on your personal formation during your time here at Loyola?
The development of discipline, for example, would be one thing. The fact of...
Through working and practicing?
Yes. Yes, because, in the end, they ask you for a high level of work. I'm not saying excessive. How do you work in other careers or in other universities? I don't know, but you have to work, too. He practices mindfulness, the fact that I have to overcome certain difficulties, to be more aware of what my self-limitations are, or certain characteristics that I have, to know myself better, too. Although you are also a little bit of age. What else have I learned? Within what the major, the interconnection of ideas, for example, which is very important. Within what I have to get out of business accounting, I have to know about economics and know how to interconnect information.
There are surely many more things, but in my formation as a person: also friends, colleagues, the sense of doing the right thing, even if it may not suit you, or at least doing what I think it is right. Both with people who may have felt more excluded and try to include them or give an opinion that, maybe, no one wants to give, that I have. I would say that personal formation is the fact of being braver with respect to myself. Not just trying to fit in, but "Hey, I think this is true, I defend it." "No, it isn't against you, but let's talk about this." To be much braver, and how is my place going to be found, as well. I would say that within the university, I would tell you that.
And from the Identity and Mission courses, which was the most important thing that you took from them?
The most important thing I took with me...Look, at what comes to my mind, without any doubt, is a teacher who is Ignacio, who is Ignacio Andrío, Nacho. Because of how he taught the classes, because of how he transmitted to the person, he connected a lot. So, always understood differently, but he is a person who seems, to me, that he has a gift of... I don't know...attraction, that is, I feel very attracted to what he says. I always listen to him very carefully. I would say that he, as a person, but not only because of what I have learned from him, but because I think he is a very remarkable person. A person worth knowing. Notice that I am not telling you anything about myself. Otherwise, that person would tell you the fact. Listen, he's an amazing person in all aspects, in the way I’ve bet him, at least he arouses a lot of admiration in me. So, I would say that: Ignacio. Are you also asking about something of the syllabus?
Well, more like what was the most important thing you took from the course or a takeaway, what did you learn that had the biggest impact on your life?
If you mean a bigger impact on my personal life, I'll repeat what I said before: The fact of thinking about things rationally before paying attention to an instinct or to a prejudice regarding people who are different, okay, with another type of religion. I would tell you that because I have applied it not only in that, but also in other areas of my life.
Okay. And was there something about these courses that you would want to be included in your other classes at the university? Obviously, the materials and contents are not related to business, but in the style of teaching or the form of the class?
I don't know what the legal limits will be like in Spain. Yes, it can be done, or not, because the law of universities dictates a little the fact of how things should or should not be done, but not only the closeness (cercania), the fact of the interiority of the professors. We are very much looking for prestige within the university, the fact that we want to be one of the best universities and have prestige and because that makes us grow and be perfect, but that is achieved with a ranking of research, and a good researcher, he does not have to be a good teacher.
But here, it is the other way around, since they don't have to do research, they are very good teachers and professionals, because maybe, the research part doesn't affect their standing. So, as within the university, they force you to do research if you are a professor, and if you are a researcher, teach classes, there are people who do less, there are people who do more, but the people who do research are not always good teachers. And they live by, and for, and really have, a mission behind them. So, if it's just, like, good, they liked this and they do this, and they don't have a mission.
I would say more about hiring personnel because among the things that can be taught, I would like it to be more of a journey. Hecho y Dilogo Religioso, we take a journey so that you do not have prejudices regarding other people. Social Doctrine of the Church—a journey in which you learn things about how what the Church thinks about certain things. Leadership would have given you a glimpse into the tools you need to be a leader tomorrow. And in Christian Events, with Ignacio, he gives you a form so that you can understand what the Christian religion is more closely through the Bible and other things, also. But in the other one, it is not a journey at all: compartmentalized data that often have no connection with others if they do not understand the reality of "why," being whether you are going to teach it tomorrow. Perfect. Not only that you don't see it in a sense, but that it hasn't been done since the '90s in real life. And you, for example, I have had an exam before, the exam I have had today, I had to take an exam on things about problems that are worth mathematics that occurred in the '90s which, today, are not talked about because something computer does. So, why do you make me do this? It doesn't make sense. Today this is a problem. Or the accounting was done very well in the sense of it seems, to me, that it fulfills the objectives it has. Economics, not so much, because it does not teach you, for example, it does not teach you to reflect.
Here, they tell you, "Look, there's this, there's this point of view, and this point of view, and this point of view." The other subject is not given, according to the professor, the person in charge of the subject or the department. There is a line, I don't like to say "ideological," but a line of thought, so, it seems, to me, that the fact that there are teachers with another type of thinking here that may be contrary, it seems to me that it contributes. They, for example, may have different opinions or different styles, but they still contribute and add to you because they have the common goal: is that you learn to think or that you fulfill the objective of their subject. But not so much, here. Here, we carry an ideological line and—a summary: an Ideological line, how they teach the subject, is there an objective, because in the others we don’t see that, and teachers that a good teacher doesn't have to be a good researcher? Well, that’s a summary.
Is it perfect, and is there something about the classes that you would change?
About these classes? I'm thinking... the subject matter of Christian Social Thought, I will give you some suggestions. You can do it free, so, if you can do it free, there is not so much problem, but that within a work, I think that what you have to do is focus the subject on an aspect that you like, because that is where I want to be the fruits. If you are more biased it is not so good. I tell you, if you justify them well, you can do it. There is no problem there. Christian Social Thought, a Christian Event: super good. Regarding Leadership, the form of the classes: I would like the classes to be more interactive because, perhaps, they are the least interactive, with José María, of all, because we are more people, so, maybe, it's less close, although, for example, the dynamics, they're very good, and it's something I like.
How big is the class?
60.
Okay, it's hard to talk and discuss with a lot of people, so, maybe, smaller would be better.
Yes. It is also true that not all of the world came [to the class]. I don't know if you are interested, but we pass the class attendance voucher code over the phone. Oh, there are times when you need a QR code, for example, as such, then you have to scan it, but other times you don't. So, the subject in which it is not, as they are obliged to pass assistance because to evaluate you, you need 70%. There are people who simply want the teacher to have everyone come to class because it is a subject that needs a percentage of passes. It makes you pass the QR code. For example, José María does it by the teacher, what he wants is for the people who are interested in to learn, he doesn't put the QR code. So, there are people, there are times when fewer people come, other times more people come, depend on the class. Out of 60 people, there are leadership classes that we have been able to be 25 to 30 people.
And would you recommend the classes to a friend?
Yes, without a doubt, yes. But from the point of view of being Christian. Because if not, they will not be interested in the subject and will go simply to pass.
What would you say to recommend them?
That if you are Christian, you should do it. Because it is true that they can give you...you also have to be interested, it isn't so much convincing them, I would explain my experience, and I think that each person should decide for themself. I would simply just give you the opportunity, I give you the invitation, but I don't have to convince you. It is you who have to come for your own interest, because, otherwise, you will not take advantage of them. That would not be so much something to convince him that what his goal is is to have easy subjects to pass. Well, I say, "Look, you can do them, but it's not the meaning of the subject, but there is also the option of being sincere."
And is there anything we covered in this interview that you'd like to change or add more? Expand anything?
*Phone rings* —I'm sorry!
No, no, if you have to pick it up, or, if you have to pick it up, take it.
No, I'm all fine.
Because it's perfect that I've enjoyed it a lot, and I think you can learn a lot. As always, things can be improved, but I think that as a sense of the subject, they are a very good idea. And with respect to other types of subjects, I think they are very, very well done, like, they meet their objectives. I think that the one that could be improved the most is Leadership, but maybe, the material has not hooked me so much, not because it is not a good subject or it is not good, I would tell you, okay.
Thank you for your time and help with this research, I appreciate it a lot. It was a pleasure to meet you and thank you so much again.
