Background: As part of the Education and Social Justice Project, in June 2025, undergraduate student Stella Vance (C'26) interviewed Rafael Obrero Trucios, a student at Loyola University Andalusia in Córdoba, Spain. In this interview, Rafael discusses Identity and Mission courses at Loyola University Andalusia from the student perspective. This interview was conducted in Spanish and translated to English by Stella Vance.
What year are you in college?
Fourth year and the last.
Are you graduating today?
No, on Friday because I am from Córdoba, and in Córdoba, we graduate on Friday.
Congratulations, that is very exciting!
Yes, thank you. Thank you, yes.
And what do you study?
Communication.
Communication, and do you like it?
I love it, I love the program. Here, we have two options, which is media, like journalism, and advertising or marketing, and I am doing the media branch; that is, journalism, and I am very happy, to be honest.
I understand that you are a student of the Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality class, is that correct?
Yes.
And what teacher teaches it?
Well, it seems that it takes turns between Jaime Flaquer, S.J., and Gonzalo Villegrán, S.J. This year, I had Gonzalo, but the last class was taught by Jaime; that is, I actually had both. It was like a blended subject because we had online classes, which were actually videos that were uploaded to Moodle, to our platform, and those classes, those online videos were made by Jaime. That is, I was taught by the two professors.
Okay, do you like the structure of the class, as it's online and such?
Yes, let's see, it's true that it's a little bit of a pain in the ass, isn't it? They teach everything very quickly because you have to dedicate a lot of time outside the class and, of course, in my major, we are usually used to having almost everything we do done in class, and the rest is very practical and very much about doing things, proposing, creating such. But, well, I liked it because the theoretical classes are interesting, the face-to-face classes are interesting, and they have also led many people to give testimony. You know? They brought a Jewish man and then two Muslims who have been like curators for the class. And the truth is that it is super good. We were able to ask them a lot of questions, they told us their testimony; it was super entertaining, to be honest.
And how many students are in the course?
I'm going to look for it exactly, but I think it'll be like 50 to 60. It is also true that I am in Córdoba, but in reality I have taken the classes in Seville because my girlfriend, my partner, is from Seville. So, since we both had them on Saturdays, so that we could both be together on the weekend [I took them there]. They are also like 40 or 50, 60, a lot, because they [the students] come together from all the majors.
Okay, and to understand a little better, the days in person were in Seville, not in Córdoba?
It was, we had three sessions. Three face-to-face, one Saturday each month. And I had in Córdoba, three, in Seville, one. I mean, I'm from Córdoba; I should have gone in Córdoba for that reason. But as the classes were the same, and it suited me better because my partner is here in Seville, because we were both from Seville, there were three face-to-face classes, and the rest—all the videos, and there was a video and a reading. And I did that, every one, at home, and it was the same for Seville and for Córdoba. There were seven subjects; for each subject, there is a video and a test/reading and test. And that was, like, I don't know, the tests are 50% of the grade, and the other 50% was a final project.
Okay, I understand. Why did you decide to take this course?
Well, let's see. Obviously, we are obligated to choose an optional subject. And since I had to choose between the first semester and this one, or three other courses, I think, last semester, I chose two. I could choose this one or other subjects that were for four hours on Friday, which I did not like. Basically, I chose it a little bit because of the schedule because that's what suited me best. I chose it because I read the curriculum, and it was what suited me best. They are subjects that—both this and Contextualizing Christianity and the Church and the other electives, the ones of “formation,” that is, they are more in line with Jesuit formation, let's say, and which is to say, formation in religion and spirituality, and such. The two sides, Contextualizing Christianity and the Church and Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality, I liked them a lot because, I don't know, they have me... It's like they're two subjects that have nothing to do with my major, but they help you think and connect a lot with religious reality, and I'm Catholic. For example, I had never heard a testimony from a Jew. You know? So, I liked it a lot.
And have you taken Contextualizing Christianity and the Church, as well?
Yes.
Okay, and what do you think of that course?
It was super cool, to be honest. I would tell you even better because it was more dynamic and also more often. I mean, we had two hours there, right? Of course, we had four hours a week of Contextualizing Christianity and the Church. I had the semester, and Professor Nacho [Ignacio Andrío], who is the one who leads the evangelization service in New York, well, he did the class very well. In fact, I'm going to give another testimony about the class next week because I loved it. It was on different topics that spoke to you about the life of Jesus in general. But not necessarily, I mean, you didn't have to be Catholic to like it. I think it's super useful for many people, whatever your concession, believer or not, because you kind of dismantle many myths about Jesus, about the prophets, right? And he did it in a super dynamic way, connecting it a lot with the current reality. I don't know, I like it a lot.
And can you think of any experiences you've had that have made you interested in interfaith dialogue or in the topic, topics in Contextualizing Christianity and the Church or other topics in the class?
Experience of my day-to-day?
Yes, for example, before you took the courses?
Oh, this, yes, that is, interreligious dialogue, for example, seems to me a very important thing. Because today, in Spain, there are obviously people from all countries or from all cultures, all religions, and I think it is very important that we become aware of that and that we are able to integrate all those people of different origins to respect them, of course. I, in fact, in Córdoba, literally 200 meters from my house there is a Muslim mosque. And I've always seen it as something natural, normal, but it's true that now, with the topic of immigration, which is very controversial, people have a lot of rejection towards Muslims, towards people from another culture. And I think it's very important that we understand that. "Hey, no, no, not all the Muslims." Also with taboo themes, like terrorism and such, people think that it’s like all of a group are bad, right? That is very important, very important that we understand that there are Muslims, Jews, who are like us, who can even be Spanish, like us. In fact, one of the boys who came in to give his general testimony is a Sevillian who spoke of Seville, right, and was Jewish. And so, that is very important.
And then, the Contextualizing Christianity and the Church was also a little bit about the event after the life of Jesus and such, but it also had a part of talking about spirituality, faith, religion. In fact, it was an important part of explaining what spirituality was, what it is to have a spiritual experience, and what a religious experience is, and how that serves everyone. I mean, a spiritual experience can be: “You're watching a sunset and you're feeling, like, a super deep connection with the universe, with the world or the universe.” So, these are things that are seen on a day-to-day basis. And, of course, regarding dialogue between religions, it's just that it's weird that I don't know someone who is Muslim or Jewish, who is like that; that seems crazy to me, not only because they are interesting, but also because they are very connected to the day-to-day life and to the reality of young people and students.
Yes, and did you find a way to personally connect with the course material?
What do you mean?
Did your teacher offer you ways to connect the class material to your personal identity or to your way of seeing the world?
Yes, always, or, evidently, the two classes had a ton of material. In Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality, it's what I've told you about the tests, well, a lot of videos, a lot of reading, even more. And in Contextualizing Christianity and the Church, there was also a lot of material with which I could expand what was given in the class, you know? And the truth is that I have not asked the teachers, for example, for additional material, but I have felt that I have been super willing to talk to people.
In fact, I teach Sunday school to children. So, one day, for one of the sessions, I needed something. I asked the professor of Contextualizing Christianity and the Church, he was explaining it to me, I was doing it very well, you know? So, they are always super willing to continue going deeper there. And the final project, in fact, it was me, it was like that was the peak of connecting with your identity because you had to tell a personal religious experience of yours related to the subject. And then, yes, so, it was literally doing your assignment. I, for example, I talked about the death of an aunt of mine, of a relative. And obviously, everything we had given in class was related to a super, super intimate thing, you know, super personal? So, yes, and the teachers are always willing to help you and even give you extra material. Sorry, if I'm taking too long, cut me off, I don't know if I'm talking too much.
No, no, it's perfect. And how do the topics covered in these courses compare to the topics you talk about in other courses at the university?
It has nothing to do with it, obviously, because...it's just that they talk about super different topics. It is that it hasn’t touched religion. We have several very humanistic subjects, for example, ethics, which do talk a little more about these issues, but nothing. In other words, they are totally different subjects. That is why they are optional: because they are different from the rest of the major and can be taken by people from all over the majors. Well, but that differs in the sense that they are totally different topics, although it is true that the part of that more advanced spirituality can be related to your major. I think the teachers...In fact, you know, the first thing they said, “I know you will tell me that it has nothing to do with your degrees.” In other words, it is not...it is true that they have nothing to do with it, but you can always find something, right? For example, when we have talked about religion, I go to many things about religious freedom. I don't know, that can be related to the law major. In my case, for reading. Even conversations with the people, the Jews, the Muslims, it all has to do with communication. In other words, in reality, if you look at it from the perspective of your degree and your field, you find a relationship.
And was there a topic in the class or both classes that felt particularly easy or interesting to learn about?
Yes, I think without a doubt the testimonies of the men. A Jew came on the first day, and it was super interesting because he told us the typical of the Jewish religion. Very basic things. I don't know, he told a great amount. And then, in addition, he allowed us to ask him about everything.
And what did you learn about? What was most interesting or important to you about that discussion?
For example, he talked about the figure of Jesus, who—of course, I'm Catholic—and most people imply that he was there, that he existed. Well, it's a no-brainer, isn't it? He is like the savior, the messiah, the central figure of Catholicism. And for him, Jesus existed, but it doesn't mean anything, you know? That was very shocking. A religion that continues to look for the messiah, Judaism, what it continues to seek is for the Savior to arrive. And no one thinks about it. I mean, you have had him there, and you are still looking for him. It is like super interesting to see that vision that explains it to you, tells you that they are still waiting for the messiah and says now, he is going to arrive. How? How are you going to know that a messiah, like with a computer and phones? Like, I don't know, super strange. And then, also the Muslims also allowed us to ask them a lot of things. They talked about Ramadan, about the subject of a woman, a lot of super interesting topics, super broad, and that had no barrier, no mask. That allowed us to ask them about everything. I think that even people who didn't care about the subject and who didn't usually attend became very interested and connected to the subject because it was really, super interesting.
Yes, and was there a topic that was difficult to discuss or learn?
Yes, there was a lot. There were some themes. I’ll speak to you about Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality because the truth is that in Contextualizing Christianity and the Church, the topics were a little more...They were easier to understand because they were like historical things that were explained. In Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality, there was a lot of philosophy and much more. And then, there were authors. For example, I remember Xavier Zubiri, who I actually put in my later work, which was super difficult to understand. It wasn't clear, as they are philosophical things which I do not...In principle, it is very difficult to understand; that is, they are concepts that you have not heard in your life. Suddenly, you relate them to something that is so clear—religion—I know what it is for me, and suddenly, they put me here with these things, and, I mean, then, it was more difficult. But no, not because it was uncomfortable or anything, but simply that they were concepts that were difficult to understand.
Yes.
Because it is a concept that we have never heard before.
Yes, and were there uncomfortable topics, too, or not?
No, no, I would say no at any time. In Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality, there were themes that are more complex. In Contextualizing Christianity and the Church, there was nothing. In other words, we had the opportunity to participate if we wanted to, and if not, no, you didn't put yourself in. They didn't ask you uncomfortable questions, far from it, that is, no.
And you can think about how you understood interfaith interaction or other topics in the course before you took this class?
Of course. I mean, I have been Catholic. I come from a family that is Catholic, practicing. In fact, I don't know if you know about Holy Week, but I go out for Holy Week. I love it all, and I love everything at Mass. I had never seen religion in such a profound and such an analytical way, as from the outside and as from–in a more formal way, that is, from a more intellectual perspective, so to speak. And so, those are issues that have surrounded me and that have always been with me, but in perspective, much more analytical, much more serious, more formal. So, yes, they do, Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality changed me a lot, and above all, the testimonies. I knew what was going on from outside Judaism and Islam, but I had no idea about a lot of things that the men who came told me. It did change me, especially, the interreligious dialogue. Because of knowing the experience of a person of another belief. And in Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality, in the sense of analyzing the other people through intellectual questions.
And now, after you've taken the class, can you tell me how you approach the topic of interreligion with other people, or personally?
Well, I think, let's see. I consider myself a respectful person, you know. From what I said before, I've always had a mosque next to my house. For example, my mother believes Catholically, and my father does not. I mean, I've always been used to dealing with people who don't believe, or who believe in a religion—it's true that I have never had a Muslim friend, a Jewish friend, but I have always respected them, right? But it is true that it [the class] has even motivated me more to want to know more about the other religions. And, for example, I would ask them questions that, I did not do because I had to…
Excuse me, can you repeat this section a little slower? Thank you.
Oh, yes, sorry. I said that I have always lived in an environment of much...My father doesn't believe in God, my mother does. It's not that I've had a super Catholic life of not relating to people, but more so that the course has made me more interested in other religions. And, in fact, I even went to ask the professor if I could go to a night in the Dos Hermanas mosque, where the university is. A night of breaking Ramadan fast because I wanted to get to see what it was like. I asked my girlfriend, and we wanted to go to a night of breaking fast. What happened is that, in the end, we couldn't because of work, exams, and such, but I would like to go, in my life, you know? To experience the inside of a religious experience that is so important to them, as important as breaking Ramadan after a whole day of fasting, for myself. Well, I would love that. So, in that sense, the subject has made me even more interested in another religion.
Great, and what was the most important thing you took away from the course?
The truth is, what served me the most, what I liked the best in Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality, was that the people shared their experience with us with lots of naturalness, without layers, without barriers, without anything, letting us ask them about everything. It was super cool. And much of knowing a religion from the outside until someone tells you, you don't really know what it means or what's behind it. So, I think that. And then, in Contextualizing Christianity and the Church, I would say that there are many things that I have taken for granted. For example, Moses opening the world, well, I've heard this since I was little and that's it, it was there, in my head. I said, "Well, not this, it can't have happened, it's impossible. A very large miracle." In Contextualizing Christianity and the Church, they explain to you and tell you that it is a natural phenomenon. And then, in the Bible, it's obviously exaggerated. And so, with a lot of things that are things, like, typical of the Bible, a lot of parables from the passage, and such and such, that you kind of know what’s behind them, you explain, and say, "That makes sense." That was super interesting for me because, also, when I explain it to the children, they freak out when I say the three wise men were not magicians. Wow, that the three wise men were not from that time. That is cool to understand religion much better.
Okay, great. How does the teaching style of these courses compare to the other courses you've taken–the structure of the class or the way the teacher teaches?
Man, class structures. Obviously, in Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality, it is very different because there was blended learning. In the first subject, I had, in which there were only three classes during the course, the others were, well, two classes per week. So, that's the first difference. And then, Contextualizing Christianity and the Church, no test, no final paper. There was also a test every day in each class. So, let's say, these classes favor getting a good grade because they are optional, and, I don't know, no, they are not; that is, if you work a little bit, you will do well. They are more secure, it does not require you to do a lot of heavy work at home, either. So, they are much lighter than other subjects than other courses. And it is true that Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality had a part that is not like any other because it is on Saturdays, but also, in the final project. So, it's a bit of a mix of both, but I was keeping in mind that it's easier and lighter, honestly, than most courses because they're electives.
And the teachers were similar in their disposition and style of teaching compared to the others?
I would tell you that... I like Nacho of Contextualizing Christianity and the Church because he is super natural, super close, and he kind of connects the topics very well with day to day life, and I like him a lot. He’s like, more informal than the other teachers, you know? Then, Gonzalo and Jaime, well, they are more academic, you know? Like, they are more serious or more formal. But I would say that the style of teaching is similar to that of the rest of the teachers, more or less, with difference, obviously. But like all of them, there is not, there is not, it is not different.
And was there anything about these courses that you wish was included in your other classes at the university, such as in the style, or the subject, or the way of teaching?
Well, there was one thing in Contextualizing Christianity and the Church: every day, at the end of the class, there was a test with questions about theory, about what had been taught in class. And then, another day it was a diary in which I had to tell an experience or something related to the class. But the professor took that away because there were many people who did it with ChatGPT. So, it was an experience that had to tell something about you. People asked Chat. And I would have liked it to continue, even to be put in other courses, because it is like a way of reflecting on what you have learned, about what has stuck with you. And even if it did not count as a part of your grade or anything, but the professor sees it, how is it [the material] connecting with the student, or not? If that topic is interesting, if they should delve deeper into one thing or another, that is, how to ask students for feedback on what is happening in the class. That seems good to me because almost no teacher does it, and I think it's saying, "No, we're not going to dismantle the class; that is, you can keep teaching the subject matter that you think is important." But ask us about what has been most interesting, what way to teach the class we find most interesting, whether that’s a presentation, a project, a practice, a group work. I think that should be applied in many courses.
Can I ask you two more questions? Do you have time?
Yes, Yes, of course.
Okay, first, would you recommend the class to a friend, or not?
I do.
Yes, and what would you tell them about the class to recommend it?
About Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality?
Yes, both, but yes, first.
First, Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality, yes. It is obvious that it is easy because you have three classes a semester, that is, regarding the schedule. It is a Saturday until two, then you go to eat, and you forget. It's in a month, that is, that's why it's not going to go.
Yes.
Then, if you dedicate time to it throughout the course—that I didn't do it because I left everything for the end; that is, I did all the tests at the last minute. But if you had dedicated time, to me, it is more or less bearable. Then, the final project, which is true that it is long, is 3,600 words. But it's cool. I mean, I loved talking about my experience from that perspective. And then, finally, the issue of testimonies, of the Jewish man, of Muslims, is also something that must be done, 100%. In other words, you have to experience it at some point in your life. So, Interreligious Dialogue and Spirituality? Yes.
I will now comment on Contextualizing Christianity and the Church: also 100%. In the end, you have to take an elective; that is, you have to, and it is super bearable, really. It’s what I have told you: the super natural teacher, they are topics that I find very interesting, and it is easy, not difficult to pass; that is, everyone passes. And I would say that because we are in a major, people are often worried whether the course is good or not? What they want is to pass, and that's it. But in this case, it is the most interesting, so I would recommend it, too.
Perfect. And you've talked a little bit about change through taking the course and changing in perspective. Can you think about your perspective on the relationship between education and your identity?
Education in the university, that is, in Loyola, in this case?
Or education in total, but at the university, yes.
How has my education affected who I am?
Yes.
It's a good question. Man, I think, look, for example, in my primary school, I went from the age of 3 until I was 15 to a school that was taught in English. And I think that the values they taught me at home were very much in line with those they taught at school. I think, I want to think that this has been very important in my education, in who I am. So, because it was a school, it was a Catholic religious school. But beyond that, a very close school, I don't know. I think so, that they have taught me many values, and also, in high school, it is also the same. In other words, I have gone to schools that put a lot of interest and focused a lot on the teaching of values. And in the university, the same, because you compare Loyola University with any other public university, and here, just the mere fact that the professors know your name, they call you by your name. I, for example, the internship I did last year was found by a teacher. I wrote him a Whatsapp, and half an hour later, he had found me a company for internships, literally. In other words, impossible in another university, impossible. So, to me, that care about others, that serving, let's say, or attending to others, helping.
I try to apply it also from my point of view, with my friends, with my teachers. Now, with you. You know? I could have said no to doing this interview; it doesn't help me, but I know that it’s difficult for you to find someone. Being here is overwhelming because you have to hand in the work, and, well, it doesn't cost me anything because I'm not going to do it for that, too. I say that we are talking about the influence of the university and education in general, so, I think so, especially in values. Well, and, of course, in my field, in communication, without the university, I wouldn't know how to hold a microphone or how to speak in public. In other words, I am going to say that, of course, that at a professional level, it has helped me a lot, but that in my values, I believe that, yes, that in all my formative stages, primary school, high school, and university have had an important role.
Perfect. If you want to add or expand on anything we've talked about, we have time.
No. I want to say that if there is something that you have not heard or that you want me to expand on or repeat, I will tell you again, will you tell me?
I don't think so. Thank you again for your time. I understand that you need to do other things, thank you so much for your help with this research. I appreciate it very much.
